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Hamara Forums _ Antariksh Aur Anhoni _ Aliens
Posted by: vivekpm Jul 19 2005, 11:58 PM
Aliens!!! This is the topic which intrigues me everytime I ponder upon it...
I used to run http://www.seti.org/site/pp.asp?c=ktJ2J9MMIsE&b=178025 sometime back hoping that I would some day help in making contacts with extra-terrestial creatures 
.
Would like to invite talks on this topic. One thing that I have always wondered is why have most, if not all, research on aliens concentrated in finding possible places in universe which can support life, that is, which has water in some form, sustainable temperatures etc...? Is it not possible that the definition of life can be different for aliens? I mean they may not require water at all. They may sustain only at 1000+ temperatures or at sub-zero temperatures. Why is this not possible? After all, the notion that to sustain life we need favourable conditions like presence of water etc., is concieved by us. For aliens, "favourable conditions" may be different.
Would request anyone who has done some reading on this to please throw more lights and possibly supply pointers to good research material...
Cheers,
Vivek...
PS: Thanks NimmiJi for this new forum...
Posted by: Mandrake Jul 20 2005, 08:50 AM
Vivek, good point.
However, when earth-scientists scour the universe, they are looking for planets that have more or less identical conditions to planet earth as we know of it today. This is because they feel that identical conditions will hopefully produce identical life-forms, meaning, we might find an image of ourselves there.
The reason for the search of such life-forms is the hope that communications might be that much easier. Also, in case inter-planetary space travel permits physical travel to these planets, then the acclimatisation will not be an issue.
It is beyond doubt that such planets exist, as also planets with alternative life-forms.
It is only a matter of time before they are found.
Or they find us first.
Posted by: Nimii Jul 20 2005, 08:56 AM
Instead of finding a place to live with the current resources.. mebbe we should find how a man can adapt to the new environment.. mutating the man to requirements of the new environment.
Phew! Sounds like a Robin Cook book 
N
Posted by: Chitralekha Jul 20 2005, 08:57 AM
The biggest proof that there is intelligent life living out there in the universe other than us is that they have never tried to contact us. 
lol
Posted by: vivekpm Jul 20 2005, 03:00 PM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Jul 20 2005, 08:50 AM)
Vivek, good point.
However, when earth-scientists scour the universe, they are looking for planets that have more or less identical conditions to planet earth as we know of it today. This is because they feel that identical conditions will hopefully produce identical life-forms, meaning, we might find an image of ourselves there.
The reason for the search of such life-forms is the hope that communications might be that much easier. Also, in case inter-planetary space travel permits physical travel to these planets, then the acclimatisation will not be an issue.
It is beyond doubt that such planets exist, as also planets with alternative life-forms.
It is only a matter of time before they are found.
Or they find us first.
However, when earth-scientists scour the universe, they are looking for planets that have more or less identical conditions to planet earth as we know of it today. This is because they feel that identical conditions will hopefully produce identical life-forms, meaning, we might find an image of ourselves there.
The reason for the search of such life-forms is the hope that communications might be that much easier. Also, in case inter-planetary space travel permits physical travel to these planets, then the acclimatisation will not be an issue.
It is beyond doubt that such planets exist, as also planets with alternative life-forms.
It is only a matter of time before they are found.
Or they find us first.
Good explaination Mandrake...
One more point that I keep wondering is, say someday, we catch some kind of a signal from aliens, there is a probability that given the distance such signals could have been sent to us hundreds of years back... and what if due to some activity they are now extinct..
Cheers,
Posted by: Mandrake Jul 20 2005, 03:47 PM
If they are extinct, tough luck.
But if they are not, just imagine...
They sent us a signal/s hundreds of years back, when they were already advanced. Today, if they receive our reply, and they still exist, they will be far more advanced.
So they can understand our reply, decipher it, locate us, and reach us - in a way that is still beyond us, as our space travel abilities are far too primitive.
FYI, NASA has beamed out a coded signal since 1975 (or around that time), indicating our location, our (man's) existence and our technological ability. It is coded, and not obvious, for 2 reasons:
1. If there is a more intelligent species out there, they may be able to interpret it and try and respond.
2. If the species is predatory, the assumption is that they may not be intellectually advanced. This MIGHT avert the possibility of them searching us out with the intention of attacking us.
It is assumed that if an alien species has the ability to find us, reach us and attack us, we may not have the wherewithall to defend ourselves.
I don't need to tell you, but this signal communication between two species on different planets is termed 'encounter of the first kind'.
Posted by: YaarMere Jul 20 2005, 06:21 PM
Wot abt Area51 n Roswell, is there any truth to those stories?
Posted by: vivekpm Jul 20 2005, 06:41 PM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Jul 20 2005, 03:47 PM)
If they are extinct, tough luck.
But if they are not, just imagine...
They sent us a signal/s hundreds of years back, when they were already advanced. Today, if they receive our reply, and they still exist, they will be far more advanced.
So they can understand our reply, decipher it, locate us, and reach us - in a way that is still beyond us, as our space travel abilities are far too primitive.
FYI, NASA has beamed out a coded signal since 1975 (or around that time), indicating our location, our (man's) existence and our technological ability. It is coded, and not obvious, for 2 reasons:
1. If there is a more intelligent species out there, they may be able to interpret it and try and respond.
2. If the species is predatory, the assumption is that they may not be intellectually advanced. This MIGHT avert the possibility of them searching us out with the intention of attacking us.
It is assumed that if an alien species has the ability to find us, reach us and attack us, we may not have the wherewithall to defend ourselves.
I don't need to tell you, but this signal communication between two species on different planets is termed 'encounter of the first kind'.
But if they are not, just imagine...
They sent us a signal/s hundreds of years back, when they were already advanced. Today, if they receive our reply, and they still exist, they will be far more advanced.
So they can understand our reply, decipher it, locate us, and reach us - in a way that is still beyond us, as our space travel abilities are far too primitive.
FYI, NASA has beamed out a coded signal since 1975 (or around that time), indicating our location, our (man's) existence and our technological ability. It is coded, and not obvious, for 2 reasons:
1. If there is a more intelligent species out there, they may be able to interpret it and try and respond.
2. If the species is predatory, the assumption is that they may not be intellectually advanced. This MIGHT avert the possibility of them searching us out with the intention of attacking us.
It is assumed that if an alien species has the ability to find us, reach us and attack us, we may not have the wherewithall to defend ourselves.
I don't need to tell you, but this signal communication between two species on different planets is termed 'encounter of the first kind'.
Mandrake, you have brought to light one more interesting point, what if they are superior to us? On they finding us or we finding them it may create trouble...
Cheers,
Posted by: tusharhaldanker82 Jul 22 2005, 02:19 AM
Our universe is so large that this discussion can go on forever.
Its better we assume that Earth is the only place in the universe where life exists. And thats what make Earth so unique.
Posted by: vivekpm Jul 22 2005, 09:49 AM
QUOTE(tusharhaldanker82 @ Jul 22 2005, 02:19 AM)
Our universe is so large that this discussion can go on forever.
Its better we assume that Earth is the only place in the universe where life exists. And thats what make Earth so unique.
Its better we assume that Earth is the only place in the universe where life exists. And thats what make Earth so unique.
True Tushar that universe is infinite. But the quest to know more about it makes us human beings different from other living creatures on this planet
Creator made this earth unique and gave intelligence only to us so why not make use of it? What say?
Cheers,
Posted by: Mandrake Jul 22 2005, 12:16 PM
Vivek, it is an educated guess that if they find us, in all probablity they WILL be superior to us - at least technologically. (Here the stress is on FIND, not 'stumble upon us accidentally'.)
To locate a planet that harbours some kind of life, reach that planet, and establish any kind of contact - is only possible with advanced knowledge of space and space travel.
With the space knowledge of the Western world barely 400 years old, I believe we have a long, long way to go before we can attempt manned space flights to even Mars - forget other extra-solar planets.
Posted by: suhana_safar Jul 22 2005, 12:48 PM
As a child I used to think we are alone but now I think we are not.
This is beacuse the world has changed so much for the worst. There are so many in human barbaric beasts between us, those who cant be classified as humans.
If ther are any aliens out ther reading my email then please dont be like us.
You are better of the way you are!!
Posted by: Nimii Jul 22 2005, 12:50 PM
But then SS u never know.. they may be juz functioning like machines.. no emotions 
We are better off than that dont you think so?
N ?
Posted by: suhana_safar Jul 22 2005, 01:04 PM
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 12:50 PM)
But then SS u never know.. they may be juz functioning like machines.. no emotions
We are better off than that dont you think so?
N ?
We are better off than that dont you think so?
N ?
Nimmi
I know what you are trying to say. But where are the emotions and of what use are they when
* Several Million children die every year due to lack of basic necessities
* Several million people live in complete poverty
* Several millions are killed in name of of those jazzy words that really mean nothing at the end of the day
* The divide betwen rich and poor goes on extending up the second
* The environment is being abused due to commercial hunger.........
* People are being oprresesed, tortutured and muredered everyday
* People marching for peace and brotherhood are termed as un-patriotic & cowards
I can go on....the list is endless.
I would prefer machines if they don't do the above.
Posted by: vivekpm Jul 22 2005, 01:42 PM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Jul 22 2005, 12:16 PM)
Vivek, it is an educated guess that if they find us, in all probablity they WILL be superior to us - at least technologically. (Here the stress is on FIND, not 'stumble upon us accidentally'.)
To locate a planet that harbours some kind of life, reach that planet, and establish any kind of contact - is only possible with advanced knowledge of space and space travel.
With the space knowledge of the Western world barely 400 years old, I believe we have a long, long way to go before we can attempt manned space flights to even Mars - forget other extra-solar planets.
To locate a planet that harbours some kind of life, reach that planet, and establish any kind of contact - is only possible with advanced knowledge of space and space travel.
With the space knowledge of the Western world barely 400 years old, I believe we have a long, long way to go before we can attempt manned space flights to even Mars - forget other extra-solar planets.
Yes Mandrake. Long way to go before we meet someone not belonging to this planet...
Cheers,
Posted by: Nimii Jul 22 2005, 01:55 PM
I wish o wish I would meet an alien (definitely wont call it Jaadu 
)
\../
N
Posted by: Nimii Jul 22 2005, 02:00 PM
SS .. sowwy I didnt see ur post.
Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.
Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?
Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !
N ?
Posted by: vivekpm Jul 22 2005, 02:14 PM
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 02:00 PM)
SS .. sowwy I didnt see ur post.
Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.
Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?
Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !
N ?
Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.
Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?
Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !
N ?
Very true. It is in our nature to look at the negative aspects. Forget the surroundings. Most of the time we say that this thing has went wrong with me. We somehow never tend to highlight positive side of Human existence.
SSji, what you have highlighted are all valid points to ponder upon but to look at the positive sides, can machine be considerate to fellow machines? can machines take part in wildlife conservation?
We are being bestowed with intelligence and it is upto us to use intelligence and decide what is correct and what is wrong? By giving intelligence, creator gave us an indicator that we are not required to be spoon-fed about what is right and what is wrong?
There have been many natural disasters and there are people who have come out to help those who have suffered at the hand of nature and there are also people who have taken advantage of such disaster and created scams...
As human beings, we are responsible for saving this planet and there are people and organization fulfilling this responsibility. On the other hand there are "Pataudis...".
If you look at it broadly, all the negative points are because of lack of optimism and lack of confidence on oneself.
To end it, I would say "Glass can be Half-Empty or Half-Full". It is optimism which has helped us sustain and which will help us prosper...
Cheers,
Posted by: suhana_safar Jul 22 2005, 03:04 PM
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Jul 22 2005, 02:14 PM)
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 02:00 PM)
SS .. sowwy I didnt see ur post.
Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.
Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?
Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !
N ?
Well why is it that only we see the negative aspects of what a human emotion has induced... It is something that can be rectified.
Why is it that the positive aspects never reviewed?
Actually I should have posted it as "thinking power" rather than emotion. Mandrake, Vivek plz give your opinions too! Thks !
N ?
Very true. It is in our nature to look at the negative aspects. Forget the surroundings. Most of the time we say that this thing has went wrong with me. We somehow never tend to highlight positive side of Human existence.
SSji, what you have highlighted are all valid points to ponder upon but to look at the positive sides, can machine be considerate to fellow machines? can machines take part in wildlife conservation?
We are being bestowed with intelligence and it is upto us to use intelligence and decide what is correct and what is wrong? By giving intelligence, creator gave us an indicator that we are not required to be spoon-fed about what is right and what is wrong?
There have been many natural disasters and there are people who have come out to help those who have suffered at the hand of nature and there are also people who have taken advantage of such disaster and created scams...
As human beings, we are responsible for saving this planet and there are people and organization fulfilling this responsibility. On the other hand there are "Pataudis...".
If you look at it broadly, all the negative points are because of lack of optimism and lack of confidence on oneself.
To end it, I would say "Glass can be Half-Empty or Half-Full". It is optimism which has helped us sustain and which will help us prosper...
Cheers,
Nimii & Vivek...sure guys, it is not that I am a pessimist, or a negative minded person. Infact being positive in such strenous times is very essential. Threre is definitely some light at the end of the tunnell.
I do appreciate that. I was simply highlighting some very harsh and true facts that we so often seem to oversee whilst living in our warm and cosy environment.
Posted by: Nimii Jul 22 2005, 03:13 PM
No doubt at all... but all these negative things are something that can be remedied SS.. How many of us stop for a moment to do anything to remedy it?.. Now this would take us to a complete different dimension.. So let me stop it here.
Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?
N
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
Posted by: suhana_safar Jul 22 2005, 04:11 PM
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 03:13 PM)
No doubt at all... but all these negative things are something that can be remedied SS.. How many of us stop for a moment to do anything to remedy it?.. Now this would take us to a complete different dimension.. So let me stop it here.
Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?
N
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?
N
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
Yes Nimii you are right, I could also mention plenty of positive things too. However it really hurts when I see people suffer, specially childen.
Posted by: vivekpm Jul 22 2005, 04:25 PM
QUOTE(suhana_safar @ Jul 22 2005, 04:11 PM)
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 22 2005, 03:13 PM)
No doubt at all... but all these negative things are something that can be remedied SS.. How many of us stop for a moment to do anything to remedy it?.. Now this would take us to a complete different dimension.. So let me stop it here.
Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?
N
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
Now let us see the positive side.. the resources we have and how we can further contribute..? Haina bolo bolo?
N
ps: We know you are not pessismistic and it is typical of a human being to always raise matters that are negative. Not many sit back and ponder over positive things.
Yes Nimii you are right, I could also mention plenty of positive things too. However it really hurts when I see people suffer, specially childen.
Be assured SSji that your concern is not unwarranted... And people with such a noble thought may someday, in their own right and might, may work towards helping these people
Cheers,
Posted by: shivani Aug 2 2005, 12:50 PM
: )
Kind of late to revive this topic I guess.. but anyone ever heard of books liek Chariots of God ( or something similar) which explores the possibility that we were put on earth by aliens. It is kind of difficult to understand, how an advanced world ( babylon and pyramidsand etc.) suddenly went to ruins and there does not seem to be a documentation on how all that was constructed.
Is it possible that our Gods were actually aliens ?
About a different life form, well non carbon based life forms are still difficult for us to fathom .. even if we are not trying to find another place to live
Posted by: Mandrake Aug 2 2005, 01:29 PM
QUOTE(shivani @ Aug 2 2005, 12:50 PM)
: )
Kind of late to revive this topic I guess.. but anyone ever heard of books liek Chariots of God ( or something similar) which explores the possibility that we were put on earth by aliens. It is kind of difficult to understand, how an advanced world ( babylon and pyramidsand etc.) suddenly went to ruins and there does not seem to be a documentation on how all that was constructed.
Is it possible that our Gods were actually aliens ?
About a different life form, well non carbon based life forms are still difficult for us to fathom .. even if we are not trying to find another place to live
Kind of late to revive this topic I guess.. but anyone ever heard of books liek Chariots of God ( or something similar) which explores the possibility that we were put on earth by aliens. It is kind of difficult to understand, how an advanced world ( babylon and pyramidsand etc.) suddenly went to ruins and there does not seem to be a documentation on how all that was constructed.
Is it possible that our Gods were actually aliens ?
About a different life form, well non carbon based life forms are still difficult for us to fathom .. even if we are not trying to find another place to live
Shivani, I need to welcome you once again (provided you don't call me/us 'SIR' (ugggghhh))
When you find the time and the inclination, pls visit my blog. See the top of the page - click on 'blogs'. Go to 'Mandrake's Blog'.
Pls feel free to post your comments there
Posted by: Poppy Aug 11 2005, 12:30 PM
I really missed this section of HF
After GURU's music I guess I would be actively participating here for sharing knowledge and GAINING knowledge from others about ---
Astronomy , SPACE , Black Holes , Super string theories
VIVEK how closer can an alien civilization be found from earth ...u must go through DREK's equation ..... just give a google search for the same ... I am sure you will find good information on same
Rgds,
SAchin
Posted by: qhabibi Aug 11 2005, 01:05 PM
I Want To Meet President Of United States Of America He also considered as Alien in all Parts Of World. But Question Is How?
Posted by: vivekpm Aug 11 2005, 04:03 PM
QUOTE(Poppy @ Aug 11 2005, 12:30 PM)
I really missed this section of HF
After GURU's music I guess I would be actively participating here for sharing knowledge and GAINING knowledge from others about ---
Astronomy , SPACE , Black Holes , Super string theories
VIVEK how closer can an alien civilization be found from earth ...u must go through DREK's equation ..... just give a google search for the same ... I am sure you will find good information on same
Rgds,
SAchin
After GURU's music I guess I would be actively participating here for sharing knowledge and GAINING knowledge from others about ---
Astronomy , SPACE , Black Holes , Super string theories
VIVEK how closer can an alien civilization be found from earth ...u must go through DREK's equation ..... just give a google search for the same ... I am sure you will find good information on same
Rgds,
SAchin
Good pointer Sachin. While reading on Drake equation, one thing that fascinated me is a para I read regarding search for non-intelligent life. IMHO, the probability of finding non-intelligent form of life is slightly higher than that of finding intelligent form of life.
And to search for non-intelligent form of life, apart from doing analysis of planetary residual or samples, one more thing that can help us is to study the change in climate of various. Like some bacteria dumped earth into ice-age some 3 billion years ago, it is quite possible to find similar cases elsewhere in universe.
Cheers,
Posted by: Poppy Aug 11 2005, 05:54 PM
Yes you are right vivek
another interesting part of SETI is that one group is interested in exploring intelligent life other than our earth ...knowing about their living circumstances..ofc the benchmarks are set according to our earthly environment e.g. water , air etc.
while another SETI researchers claim that these kind of benchmarks are of little use as scientists have found form of lifes on earth where LIVING is next to impossible for species like MAMALS , BIRDS ,etc.. e.g. Bacterias,micro organisams are found near natural hot water ponds having water temperature more tahn 60-70 degrees .
Just few days back marine scientists have tried entering robots in to sea deeper than ever ...can't recollect the depth but ...depth was around 6000-8000 feet (meters ?!) ...and they said that was total REAL ALIEN world for us .
If some day we find alien signal or another way of communication than problem arises of LANGUAGE !!!!! .... Scientists have found DOLPHINS , WHALES have their some sort of language which we knows as ULTRA SONIC sound waves....
will continue...sorry basss hai 
Posted by: vivekpm Aug 11 2005, 06:05 PM
QUOTE(Poppy @ Aug 11 2005, 05:54 PM)
while another SETI researchers claim that these kind of benchmarks are of little use as scientists have found form of lifes on earth where LIVING is next to impossible for species like MAMALS , BIRDS ,etc.. e.g. Bacterias,micro organisams are found near natural hot water ponds having water temperature more tahn 60-70 degrees .
This is exactly what I had pointed in one of my previous posts. The probability of finding life will shoot up if we broaden our search criteria.
QUOTE(Poppy @ Aug 11 2005, 05:54 PM)
Just few days back marine scientists have tried entering robots in to sea deeper than ever ...can't recollect the depth but ...depth was around 6000-8000 feet (meters ?!) ...and they said that was total REAL ALIEN world for us .
If some day we find alien signal or another way of communication than problem arises of LANGUAGE !!!!! .... Scientists have found DOLPHINS , WHALES have their some sort of language which we knows as ULTRA SONIC sound waves....
will continue...sorry basss hai
If some day we find alien signal or another way of communication than problem arises of LANGUAGE !!!!! .... Scientists have found DOLPHINS , WHALES have their some sort of language which we knows as ULTRA SONIC sound waves....
will continue...sorry basss hai
This prompted me to search for some information about unmanned exploration in deep oceans. Probably this is the news-piece you are referring to. It is absolutely mind-boggling and more I think of it more I am amazed by the depth of this topic. And so digressing from alien talks, here is the news article I found:
QUOTE
Think of it as the Mars Rover but at the bottom of the ocean, remotely exploring our own planet's most alien landscape for scientists back at mission control.
"This is how the science is going to be done," said Deborah Kelley, a University of Washington oceanographer.
Students watch
Zoom Niki Desautels / P-I
UW oceanography graduate student Colleen Evans, left, and Zurich doctorate student Adelie Delacour notice a grayish hydrothermal fluid as they observe the remote exploration of the "Lost City."
In 2000, Kelley led an expedition using a manned submersible to explore the deep Atlantic Ocean. Her team stumbled upon something never seen before. The researchers discovered a startlingly massive collection of limestone towers located miles away from the tectonic "spreading" cracks in the seafloor that typically produce such structures.
Some of these hydrothermal vent towers were hundreds of feet high, prompting the scientists to call the unprecedented find the "Lost City" after the myth of Atlantis.
Yesterday, Kelley and her colleagues were in Seattle and also "virtually" back at the Lost City to demonstrate how robotics and information technology can transform deep-ocean exploration. What once required dangerous and time-limited manned exploits can now be done by remote control on a ship deck or in an office thousands of miles away.
"Bottom time is critical ... and we can now work 24 hours a day, seven days a week," said deep-sea explorer Robert Ballard, best known for discovering the wreck of the Titanic.
He spoke to Kelley and others at the UW from a ship cruising above the Lost City, about 1,600 miles east of Bermuda.
Ballard and Kelley are collaborating on this "proof of concept" project, largely paid for by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's office of ocean exploration.
Shelf-like structures
Zoom
Shelf-like "flange" structures jut from the wall of one of the spires in the Lost City hydrothermal field. (IFE URI-IAO, Lost City Science Party and NOAA)
"Our oceans are 95 percent unexplored," said Ballard, speaking by a satellite video link-up from the NOAA vessel Ronald H. Brown. The celebrity scientist tossed out some other figures -- 72 percent of the planet is under water and so is 51 percent of the United States -- to make the point that there is a lot left to explore.
In a darkened room on the UW campus, the makeshift, temporary command center featured Kelley and her colleagues surrounded by video screens depicting Ballard along with the remote-controlled submersible Hercules poised alongside one of the stark, shimmering white towers of the Lost City.
The Lost City towers are distinct from the "black smokers" found at the seafloor cracks off the Northwest coast, which feature creatures that have figured out how to survive on the light-deprived, toxic and extremely hot edge of an undersea volcano.
Life (mostly microbial) in the Lost City is just as bizarre and extreme, but less well understood.
"One of the main questions we're looking at is how does life thrive down there," said Kelley.
Nobody has ever seen anything like the Lost City, said Kelley, but it probably isn't unique -- it's just that so little of the ocean has been explored, she said.
While there is some scientific research being done on this expedition, which started last week and ends Monday, the primary goal of the exercise was simply to show that the technology and approach could work for deep-sea exploration.
There is perhaps nobody better at promoting ocean exploration than Ballard. Yesterday's event at the UW often seemed more like an announcement of a new IMAX film (which, by the way, is involved in the project) than a typical scientific news conference.
A list of sponsors and supporting organizations, including National Geographic and Ballard's private organization, the Jason Foundation for Education, was prominently mentioned or displayed. A high school class from Woodstock, Ill., that won a naming competition for a new NOAA ship was honored.
"It's certainly a different way of operating," acknowledged Kelley.
But if that's what it takes to get the science funded and the public educated about research, she's comfortable with it. Kelley noted that the National Science Foundation's budget for oceanography was recently cut, which means some of the research ships will stay in port.
After most of the media and the high school students left the command center, Kelley and her team at the UW got back to work seeing what other information they could get Hercules to collect from the Lost City before calling it a day.
"This is how the science is going to be done," said Deborah Kelley, a University of Washington oceanographer.
Students watch
Zoom Niki Desautels / P-I
UW oceanography graduate student Colleen Evans, left, and Zurich doctorate student Adelie Delacour notice a grayish hydrothermal fluid as they observe the remote exploration of the "Lost City."
In 2000, Kelley led an expedition using a manned submersible to explore the deep Atlantic Ocean. Her team stumbled upon something never seen before. The researchers discovered a startlingly massive collection of limestone towers located miles away from the tectonic "spreading" cracks in the seafloor that typically produce such structures.
Some of these hydrothermal vent towers were hundreds of feet high, prompting the scientists to call the unprecedented find the "Lost City" after the myth of Atlantis.
Yesterday, Kelley and her colleagues were in Seattle and also "virtually" back at the Lost City to demonstrate how robotics and information technology can transform deep-ocean exploration. What once required dangerous and time-limited manned exploits can now be done by remote control on a ship deck or in an office thousands of miles away.
"Bottom time is critical ... and we can now work 24 hours a day, seven days a week," said deep-sea explorer Robert Ballard, best known for discovering the wreck of the Titanic.
He spoke to Kelley and others at the UW from a ship cruising above the Lost City, about 1,600 miles east of Bermuda.
Ballard and Kelley are collaborating on this "proof of concept" project, largely paid for by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration's office of ocean exploration.
Shelf-like structures
Zoom
Shelf-like "flange" structures jut from the wall of one of the spires in the Lost City hydrothermal field. (IFE URI-IAO, Lost City Science Party and NOAA)
"Our oceans are 95 percent unexplored," said Ballard, speaking by a satellite video link-up from the NOAA vessel Ronald H. Brown. The celebrity scientist tossed out some other figures -- 72 percent of the planet is under water and so is 51 percent of the United States -- to make the point that there is a lot left to explore.
In a darkened room on the UW campus, the makeshift, temporary command center featured Kelley and her colleagues surrounded by video screens depicting Ballard along with the remote-controlled submersible Hercules poised alongside one of the stark, shimmering white towers of the Lost City.
The Lost City towers are distinct from the "black smokers" found at the seafloor cracks off the Northwest coast, which feature creatures that have figured out how to survive on the light-deprived, toxic and extremely hot edge of an undersea volcano.
Life (mostly microbial) in the Lost City is just as bizarre and extreme, but less well understood.
"One of the main questions we're looking at is how does life thrive down there," said Kelley.
Nobody has ever seen anything like the Lost City, said Kelley, but it probably isn't unique -- it's just that so little of the ocean has been explored, she said.
While there is some scientific research being done on this expedition, which started last week and ends Monday, the primary goal of the exercise was simply to show that the technology and approach could work for deep-sea exploration.
There is perhaps nobody better at promoting ocean exploration than Ballard. Yesterday's event at the UW often seemed more like an announcement of a new IMAX film (which, by the way, is involved in the project) than a typical scientific news conference.
A list of sponsors and supporting organizations, including National Geographic and Ballard's private organization, the Jason Foundation for Education, was prominently mentioned or displayed. A high school class from Woodstock, Ill., that won a naming competition for a new NOAA ship was honored.
"It's certainly a different way of operating," acknowledged Kelley.
But if that's what it takes to get the science funded and the public educated about research, she's comfortable with it. Kelley noted that the National Science Foundation's budget for oceanography was recently cut, which means some of the research ships will stay in port.
After most of the media and the high school students left the command center, Kelley and her team at the UW got back to work seeing what other information they could get Hercules to collect from the Lost City before calling it a day.
Source : http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/234479_lostcity29.html
Posted by: vivekpm Aug 31 2005, 02:36 PM
One more prospect for life outside our planet?!!
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4197686.stm
QUOTE
Space scientists say their discoveries about Saturn's moon Enceladus are stunning, if just a little baffling.
Using the instrument-packed Cassini probe, they have confirmed that the 500km-wide world has an atmosphere.
They have also seen a "hotspot" at the icy moon's south pole, which is riven with cracks dubbed "tiger stripes".
But the US and European scientists told a London meeting they could not yet explain fully the energetic processes driving all the activity on Enceladus.
"There were signs from a long time ago that Enceladus was a strange moon," said Dr Carolyn Porco, leader of Cassini's imaging team, "but it is just so gratifying and fabulous to see all the results come together and clearly point to a specific region on the surface which seems to be the origin of a lot of that peculiarity."
'Strange' world
The moon has become a major target of interest since the Cassini mission to the Saturn system arrived just over a year ago.
Enceladus orbits the ringed planet at a distance of approximately 237,400km and is described as the most reflective object in the Solar System; its icy surface throws back about 90% of the sunlight that hits it.
It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange
Dr John Spencer, Southwest Research Institute
The spacecraft made a special low pass of the moon on 14 July, crossing a mere 173km above the surface at its closest approach.
This allowed Cassini to make observations of unprecedented detail; and they backed up data obtained by the probe's magnetometer instrument on previous flybys that hinted at the presence of a water vapour atmosphere.
But that was just the start of what is now proving to be a fascinating and evolving story.
"We confirmed the signature that there was an atmosphere but it is strange atmosphere," Professor Michele Dougherty, from the UK's Imperial College and the lead scientist for the magnetometer instrument, told BBC News.
"It seems to be concentrated at the south pole and the best way to match our observations is that you have almost a cometary jet coming off the south pole."
'Hard to understand'
High-resolution imagery shows the southern polar region to be relatively smooth - usually a good indicator of recent activity - but cut by a number of long, dominant cracks. These are the so-called tiger stripes.
They are about 130km long and roughly parallel to one another, spaced about 40km apart.
Cassini's composite infrared spectrometer shows the region to be much warmer than expected.
Temperature data from Cassini (Nasa)
Heat is concentrated at the south pole
Whereas temperatures near the equator are a frigid 80 Kelvin (minus 193C), the south polar average reaches 85K (minus 188C). Small areas of the pole, concentrated near the tiger stripe fractures, are even warmer: well over 110K (minus 163C) in some places.
"The amount of heat there is really hard to understand as being due to just sunlight warming the surface," said Dr John Spencer, from the Southwest Research Institute in Colorado, US.
"It shouldn't be that warm at the pole. It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange.
"This is only the second place in the Solar System beyond Earth that we've seen signs of heat coming out of the interior - the other being Jupiter's moon Io."
The scientists think the cracks may act like vents, spewing out water vapour and very fine water-ice particles. Some have suggested there could be ice geysers and even ice volcanoes at the stripe locations - but these have not been imaged directly.
Interest index
The puzzle for researchers is how to explain such an energetic system on Enceladus.
As the moon moves around an eccentric orbit of Saturn, gravitational forces should subject the tiny world to some tidal heating. Radioactive isotopes in its rocky core may also be a source of some warming.
But scientists are struggling to make the numbers add up and are frankly baffled as to why the activity they see should be so concentrated in just the one region.
Presence of organics at tiger stripes (Nasa)
Cassini could detect very simple organics at the tiger stripes
"One of the most fascinating aspects of Enceladus is that it's so very small as icy moons go, but so very geophysically active," said Dr Bob Brown, from the University of Arizona, US, and team leader for Cassini's visual and infrared mapping spectrometer.
"It's hard for a body as small as Enceladus to hold onto the heat necessary to drive such large-scale geophysical phenomena, but it had done just that.
"Enceladus and its incredible geology is a marvellous puzzle for us to figure out."
Certainly, what the Cassini data has done is thrust Enceladus up the interest index of objects in the Solar System that demand further investigation.
Scientists may not be able to explain the "boiler" at the south pole but they are already talking up the possibility that conditions there could allow for liquid water below the surface - with all the implications that might have.
"It's quite likely that this moon will now join the ranks of Mars and Jupiter's moon Europa where you might have liquid water - and the biologists could start getting interested in this being a place were life might possibly arise," enthused Dr Torrence Johnson, a Cassini scientist from Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California.
"It moves Enceladus from being a small denizen of the outer Solar System - a frozen iceberg - to something that's more of an active type world that we're interested in exploring."
Cassini discoveries at Enceladus include:
* presence of a strange atmosphere concentrated at the south pole
* atmosphere mostly (91%) water vapour, but with some nitrogen, carbon dioxide and other simple carbon-based molecules (organics)
* large crevasse features at south pole dubbed tiger stripes
* intriguing hotspot at south pole - anomalous warmth in the area of the tiger stripes
* presence of "orderly" water-ice at south pole, especially within tiger stripe features, indicates region must have been very hot, be very young, or both
* presence of simple organics along the fractures
* indication that water vapour and fine material are being ejected from tiger stripes
* fine ice material is probably the significant and sustaining source of ice particles that make up Saturn's outermost ring - its E ring
Cassini scientists are meeting in London this week ahead of a major conference of the American Astronomy Society in Cambridge next week.
The $3.2bn Cassini-Huygens mission is a joint venture between the US space agency (Nasa), the European Space Agency (Esa) and the Italian Space Agency (Asi).
Using the instrument-packed Cassini probe, they have confirmed that the 500km-wide world has an atmosphere.
They have also seen a "hotspot" at the icy moon's south pole, which is riven with cracks dubbed "tiger stripes".
But the US and European scientists told a London meeting they could not yet explain fully the energetic processes driving all the activity on Enceladus.
"There were signs from a long time ago that Enceladus was a strange moon," said Dr Carolyn Porco, leader of Cassini's imaging team, "but it is just so gratifying and fabulous to see all the results come together and clearly point to a specific region on the surface which seems to be the origin of a lot of that peculiarity."
'Strange' world
The moon has become a major target of interest since the Cassini mission to the Saturn system arrived just over a year ago.
Enceladus orbits the ringed planet at a distance of approximately 237,400km and is described as the most reflective object in the Solar System; its icy surface throws back about 90% of the sunlight that hits it.
It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange
Dr John Spencer, Southwest Research Institute
The spacecraft made a special low pass of the moon on 14 July, crossing a mere 173km above the surface at its closest approach.
This allowed Cassini to make observations of unprecedented detail; and they backed up data obtained by the probe's magnetometer instrument on previous flybys that hinted at the presence of a water vapour atmosphere.
But that was just the start of what is now proving to be a fascinating and evolving story.
"We confirmed the signature that there was an atmosphere but it is strange atmosphere," Professor Michele Dougherty, from the UK's Imperial College and the lead scientist for the magnetometer instrument, told BBC News.
"It seems to be concentrated at the south pole and the best way to match our observations is that you have almost a cometary jet coming off the south pole."
'Hard to understand'
High-resolution imagery shows the southern polar region to be relatively smooth - usually a good indicator of recent activity - but cut by a number of long, dominant cracks. These are the so-called tiger stripes.
They are about 130km long and roughly parallel to one another, spaced about 40km apart.
Cassini's composite infrared spectrometer shows the region to be much warmer than expected.
Temperature data from Cassini (Nasa)
Heat is concentrated at the south pole
Whereas temperatures near the equator are a frigid 80 Kelvin (minus 193C), the south polar average reaches 85K (minus 188C). Small areas of the pole, concentrated near the tiger stripe fractures, are even warmer: well over 110K (minus 163C) in some places.
"The amount of heat there is really hard to understand as being due to just sunlight warming the surface," said Dr John Spencer, from the Southwest Research Institute in Colorado, US.
"It shouldn't be that warm at the pole. It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange.
"This is only the second place in the Solar System beyond Earth that we've seen signs of heat coming out of the interior - the other being Jupiter's moon Io."
The scientists think the cracks may act like vents, spewing out water vapour and very fine water-ice particles. Some have suggested there could be ice geysers and even ice volcanoes at the stripe locations - but these have not been imaged directly.
Interest index
The puzzle for researchers is how to explain such an energetic system on Enceladus.
As the moon moves around an eccentric orbit of Saturn, gravitational forces should subject the tiny world to some tidal heating. Radioactive isotopes in its rocky core may also be a source of some warming.
But scientists are struggling to make the numbers add up and are frankly baffled as to why the activity they see should be so concentrated in just the one region.
Presence of organics at tiger stripes (Nasa)
Cassini could detect very simple organics at the tiger stripes
"One of the most fascinating aspects of Enceladus is that it's so very small as icy moons go, but so very geophysically active," said Dr Bob Brown, from the University of Arizona, US, and team leader for Cassini's visual and infrared mapping spectrometer.
"It's hard for a body as small as Enceladus to hold onto the heat necessary to drive such large-scale geophysical phenomena, but it had done just that.
"Enceladus and its incredible geology is a marvellous puzzle for us to figure out."
Certainly, what the Cassini data has done is thrust Enceladus up the interest index of objects in the Solar System that demand further investigation.
Scientists may not be able to explain the "boiler" at the south pole but they are already talking up the possibility that conditions there could allow for liquid water below the surface - with all the implications that might have.
"It's quite likely that this moon will now join the ranks of Mars and Jupiter's moon Europa where you might have liquid water - and the biologists could start getting interested in this being a place were life might possibly arise," enthused Dr Torrence Johnson, a Cassini scientist from Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California.
"It moves Enceladus from being a small denizen of the outer Solar System - a frozen iceberg - to something that's more of an active type world that we're interested in exploring."
Cassini discoveries at Enceladus include:
* presence of a strange atmosphere concentrated at the south pole
* atmosphere mostly (91%) water vapour, but with some nitrogen, carbon dioxide and other simple carbon-based molecules (organics)
* large crevasse features at south pole dubbed tiger stripes
* intriguing hotspot at south pole - anomalous warmth in the area of the tiger stripes
* presence of "orderly" water-ice at south pole, especially within tiger stripe features, indicates region must have been very hot, be very young, or both
* presence of simple organics along the fractures
* indication that water vapour and fine material are being ejected from tiger stripes
* fine ice material is probably the significant and sustaining source of ice particles that make up Saturn's outermost ring - its E ring
Cassini scientists are meeting in London this week ahead of a major conference of the American Astronomy Society in Cambridge next week.
The $3.2bn Cassini-Huygens mission is a joint venture between the US space agency (Nasa), the European Space Agency (Esa) and the Italian Space Agency (Asi).
Cheers,
Posted by: Mandrake Aug 31 2005, 03:19 PM
Just for an update, Cassini recorded yesterday giant water plumes on Enceladus. Astronomers are baffled again. Extremely tall water geysers are spouting out of the planet's interiors.
Water thrills them. But why this energy activity? Not known yet.
Posted by: zashakeel Oct 8 2005, 03:32 PM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Aug 31 2005, 03:19 PM)
Just for an update, Cassini recorded yesterday giant water plumes on Enceladus. Astronomers are baffled again. Extremely tall water geysers are spouting out of the planet's interiors.
Water thrills them. But why this energy activity? Not known yet.
Following is an article regarding Aliens mentioned in Koran. Any one interested, may please visit the following site:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/7906/
Posted by: vivekpm Oct 18 2005, 09:55 PM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Jul 20 2005, 08:50 AM)
Vivek, good point.
However, when earth-scientists scour the universe, they are looking for planets that have more or less identical conditions to planet earth as we know of it today. This is because they feel that identical conditions will hopefully produce identical life-forms, meaning, we might find an image of ourselves there.
However, when earth-scientists scour the universe, they are looking for planets that have more or less identical conditions to planet earth as we know of it today. This is because they feel that identical conditions will hopefully produce identical life-forms, meaning, we might find an image of ourselves there.
Trust me to dig out old threads
Mandrake, here is an article to support your statement...
QUOTE
New map provides more evidence Mars once like Earth
NASA NEWS RELEASE
Posted: October 17, 2005
NASA scientists have discovered additional evidence that Mars once underwent plate tectonics, slow movement of the planet's crust, like the present-day Earth. A new map of Mars' magnetic field made by the Mars Global Surveyor spacecraft reveals a world whose history was shaped by great crustal plates being pulled apart or smashed together.
Artistic illustration of Earth magnetic field and Mars magnetic field. Earth's magnetic field protects the planet from harmful solar and cosmic radiation. Click on image to start animation. Credit: NASA
Scientists first found evidence of plate tectonics on Mars in 1999. Those initial observations, also done with the Mars Global Surveyor's magnetometer, covered only one region in the Southern Hemisphere. The data was taken while the spacecraft performed an aerobraking maneuver, and so came from differing heights above the crust.
This high resolution magnetic field map, the first of its kind, covers the entire surface of Mars. The new map is based on four years of data taken in a constant orbit. Each region on the surface has been sampled many times. "The more measurements we obtain, the more accuracy, and spatial resolution, we achieve," said Dr. Jack Connerney, co-investigator for the Mars Global Surveyor magnetic filed investigation at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, Greenbelt, Md.
"This map lends support to and expands on the 1999 results," said Dr. Norman Ness of the Bartol Research Institute at the University of Delaware, Newark. "Where the earlier data showed a "striping" of the magnetic field in one region, the new map finds striping elsewhere. More importantly, the new map shows evidence of features, transform faults, that are a "tell-tale" of plate tectonics on Earth." Each stripe represents a magnetic field pointed in one directionpositive or negativeand the alternating stripes indicate a "flipping" of the direction of the magnetic field from one stripe to another.
Scientists see similar stripes in the crustal magnetic field on Earth. Stripes form whenever two plates are being pushed apart by molten rock coming up from the mantle, such as along the Mid-Atlantic Ridge. As the plate spreads and cools, it becomes magnetized in the direction of the Earth's strong global field. Since Earth's global field changes direction a few times every million years, on average, a flow that cools in one period will be magnetized in a different direction than a later flow. As the new crust is pushed out and away from the ridge, stripes of alternating magnetic fields aligned with the ridge axis develop. Transform faults, identified by "shifts" in the magnetic pattern, occur only in association with spreading centers.
To see this characteristic magnetic imprint on Mars indicates that it, too, had regions where new crust came up from the mantle and spread out across the surface. And when you have new crust coming up, you need old crust plunging back downthe exact mechanism for plate tectonics.
Connerney points out that plate tectonics provides a unifying framework to explain several Martian features. First, there is the magnetic pattern itself. Second, the Tharsis volcanoes lie along a straight line. These formations could have formed from the motion of a crustal plate over a fixed "hotspot" in the mantle below, just as the Hawaiian islands on Earth are thought to have formed. Third, the Valles Marineris, a large canyon six times as long as the Grand Canyon and eight times as deep, looks just like a rift formed on Earth by a plate being pulled apart. Even more, it is oriented just as one would expect from plate motions implied by the magnetic map.
"It's certainly not an exhaustive geologic analysis," said Dr. Mario Acuna, principal investigator for the Mars Global Surveyor magnetic filed investigation at Goddard Space Flight Center. "But plate tectonics does give us a consistent explanation of some of the most prominent features on Mars."
Results were published in the Oct. 10 edition of the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science.
Other scientists working on the project included Dr. G. Kletetschka of the Catholic University of America, Washington, DC, and Goddard Space Flight Center; Dr. D.L. Mitchell and Dr. R.P. Lin of the University of California at Berkeley; and Dr. H. Reme of the Centre d'Etude Spatiale des Rayonnements in France. Dr. Acuna leads the international team that built and operates the Mars Global Surveyor magnetometers. The Jet Propulsion Laboratory, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena, manages the mission for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington.
http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n0510/17marsmap/
Cheers,
Posted by: Mandrake Oct 19 2005, 08:52 AM
Vivek, main is khel ka purana khiladi hoon
Par woh Judge Dread (Shivani) maanti nahi na
Posted by: vivekpm Jan 7 2006, 03:23 PM
QUOTE
Skepticism greets claim of possible alien microbes
Jan. 5, 2006
Special to World Science
A paper to appear in a scientific journal claims a strange red rain might have dumped microbes from space onto Earth four years ago.
But the report is meeting with a shower of skepticism from scientists who say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof—and this one hasn’t got it.
The particles at about 1000 times actual size (courtesy Godfrey Louis).
The shaded area represents the state of Kerala in India. (Courtesy Nichalp)
The scientists agree on two points, though. The things look like cells, at least superficially. And no one is sure what they are.
“These particles have much similarity with biological cells though they are devoid of DNA,” wrote Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar of Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, India, in the controversial paper.
“Are these cell-like particles a kind of alternate life from space?”
The mystery began when the scarlet showers containing the red specks hit parts of India in 2001. Researchers said the particles might be dust or a fungus, but it remained unclear.
The new paper includes a chemical analysis of the particles, a description of their appearance under microscopes and a survey of where they fell. It assesses various explanations for them and concludes that the specks, which vaguely resemble red blood cells, might have come from a meteor.
A peer-reviewed research journal, Astrophysics and Space Science, has agreed to publish the paper. The journal sometimes publishes unconventional findings, but rarely if ever ventures into generally acknowledged fringe science such as claims of extraterrestrial visitors.
If the particles do represent alien life forms, said Louis and Kumar, this would fit with a longstanding theory called panspermia, which holds that life forms could travel around the universe inside comets and meteors.
These rocky objects would thus “act as vehicles for spreading life in the universe,” they added. They posted the paper http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0601022 this week on a database where astronomers often post research papers.
Louis and Kumar have previously posted other, unpublished papers saying the particles can grow if placed in extreme heat, and reproduce. But the Astrophysics and Space Science paper doesn’t include these claims. It mostly limits itself to arguing for the particles’ meteoric origin, citing newspaper reports that a meteor broke up in the atmosphere hours before the red rain.
John Dyson, managing editor of Astrophysics and Space Science, confirmed it has accepted the paper. But he said he hasn’t read it because his co-managing editor, the European Space Agency’s Willem Wamsteker, handled it. Wamsteker died several weeks ago at age 63.
A paper’s publication in a peer-reviewed journal is generally thought to give it some stamp of scientific seriousness, because scientists vet the findings in the process. Nonetheless, the red rain paper provoked disbelief.
“I really, really don’t think they are from a meteor!” wrote Harvard University biologist Jack Szostak of the particles, in an email. And this isn’t the first report of red rain of biological origin, Szostak wrote, though it seems to be the most detailed.
Szostak said the chemical tests the researchers employed aren’t very sensitive. The so-called cells are admittedly “weird,” he added, saying he would ask his microbiologist friends what they think they are.
“I don’t have an obvious explanation,” agreed prominent origins-of-life researcher David Deamer of the University of California Santa Cruz, in an email. They “look like real cells, but with a very thick cell wall. But the leap to an extraterrestrial form of life delivered to Earth must surely be the least likely hypothesis.”
A range of additional tests is needed, he added. Louis agreed: “There remains much to be studied,” he wrote in an email.
The researchers didn’t dispute the panspermia theory itself, which has a substantial scientific following. “Panspermia may well be possible,” wrote Lynn J. Rothschild of the NASA Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., in an email. “I’m just not so sure that this is a case of it.”
Others viewed the study more favorably.
“I think more careful examination of the red rain material is needed, but so far there seems to be a strong prima facie [first-glance] case to suggest that this may be correct,” said Chandra Wickramasinghe, director of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology at Cardiff University, U.K., and a leading advocate of panspermia.
The story of the specks began on July 25, 2001, when residents of Kerala, a state in southwestern India, started seeing scarlet rain in some areas.
“Almost the entire state, except for two northern districts, have reported these unusual rains over the past week,” the BBC online reported on July 30. “Experts said the most likely reason was the presence of dust in the atmosphere which colours the water.”
The explanation didn’t satisfy everyone.
The rain “is eluding explanations as the days go by,” the newspaper Indian Express reported online a week later. The article said the Centre for Earth Science Studies, based in Thiruvananthapuram, India, had discarded an initial hypothesis that a streaking meteor triggered the rain, in favor of the view that the particles were spores from a fungus.
But “the exact species is yet to be identified. [And] how such a large quantity of spores could appear over a small region is as yet unknown,” the paper quoted center director M. Baba as saying. Baba didn’t return an email from World Science this week.
The red rain continued to appear sporadically for about two months, though most of it fell in the first 10 days, Louis and Kumar wrote. The “striking red colouration” turned out to come from microscopic, mixed-in red particles, they added, which had “no similarity with usual desert dust.”
At least 50,000 kg (55 tons) of the particles have fallen in all, they estimated. “An analysis of this strange phenomenon further shows that the conventional atmospheric transport processes like dust storms etc. cannot explain” it.
“The red particles were uniformly dispersed in the rainwater,” they wrote. “When the red rainwater was collected and kept for several hours in a vessel, the suspended particles have a tendency to settle to the bottom.”
“The red rain occurred in many places during a continuing normal rain,” the paper continued. “It was reported from a few places that people on the streets found their cloths stained by red raindrops. In a few places the concentration of particles were so great that the rainwater appeared almost like blood.”
The precipitation, the researchers added, had a “highly localized appearance. It usually occur[ed] over an area of less than a square kilometer to a few square kilometers. Many times it had a sharp boundary, which means while it was raining strongly red at a place a few meters away there were no red rain.” A typical red rain lasted from a few minutes to less than about 20 minutes, they added.
The scientists compiled charts of where and when the showers occurred based on local newspaper reports.
The particles look like one-celled organisms and are about 4 to 10 thousandths of a millimeter wide, the researchers wrote, somewhat larger than typical bacteria.
“Under low magnification the particles look like smooth, red coloured glass beads. Under high magnifications (1000x) their differences in size and shape can be seen,” they wrote.
“Shapes vary from spherical to ellipsoid and slightly elongated… These cell-like particles have a thick and coloured cell envelope, which can be well identified under the microscope.” A few had broken cell envelopes, they added.
The particles seem to lack a nucleus, the core DNA-containing compartment that animal and plant cells have, the researchers wrote. Chemical tests indicated they also lacked DNA, the gene-carrying molecule that most types of cells contain.
Nonetheless, Louis and Kumar wrote that the particles show “fine-structured membranes” under magnification, like normal cells.
The outer envelope seems to contain an “inner capsule,” they added, which in some places “appears to be detached from the outer wall to form an empty region inside the cell. Further, there appears to be a faintly visible mucus layer present on the outer side of the cell.”
“One characteristic feature is the inward depression of the spherical surface to form cup like structures giving a squeezed appearance,” which varies among particles, they added.
“The major constituents of the red particles are carbon and oxygen,” they wrote. Carbon is the key component of life on Earth. “Silicon is most prominent among the minor constituents” of the particles, Louis and Kumar added; other elements found were iron, sodium, aluminum and chlorine.
“The red rain started in the State during a period of normal rain, which indicate that the red particles are not something which accumulated in the atmosphere during a dry period and washed down on a first rain,” the pair wrote.
“Vessels kept in open space also collected red rain. Thus it is not something that is washed out from rooftops or tree leaves. Considering the huge quantity of red particles fallen over a wide geographic area, it is impossible to imagine that these are some pollen or fungal spores which have originated from trees,” they added.
“The nature of the red particles rules out the possibility that these are dust particles from a distant desert source,” they wrote, and such particles “are not found in Kerala or nearby place.”
One easy assumption is that they “got airlifted from a distant source on Earth by some wind system,” they added, but this leaves several puzzles.
“One characteristic of each red rain case is its highly localized appearance. If particles originate from distant desert source then why [was] there were no mixing and thinning out of the particle collection during transport”? they wrote.
“It is possible to explain this by assuming the meteoric origin of the red particles. The red rain phenomenon first started in Kerala after a meteor airburst event, which occurred on 25th July 2001 near Changanacherry in [the] Kottayam district. This meteor airburst is evidenced by the sonic boom experienced by several people during early morning of that day.
“The first case of red rain occurred in this area few hours after the airburst... This points to a possible link between the meteor and red rain. If particle clouds are created in the atmosphere by the fragmentation and disintegration of a special kind of fragile cometary meteor that presumably contain[s] a dense collection of red particles, then clouds of such particles can mix with the rain clouds to cause red rain,” they wrote.
The pair proposed that while approaching Earth at low angle, the meteor traveled southeast above Kerala with a final airburst above the Kottayam district. “During its travel in the atmosphere it must have released several small fragments, which caused the deposition of cell clusters in the atmosphere.”
Alive or dead, the particles have some staying power, if the paper is correct. “Even after storage in the original rainwater at room temperature without any preservative for about four years, no decay or discolouration of the particles could be found.”
Jan. 5, 2006
Special to World Science
A paper to appear in a scientific journal claims a strange red rain might have dumped microbes from space onto Earth four years ago.
But the report is meeting with a shower of skepticism from scientists who say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof—and this one hasn’t got it.
The particles at about 1000 times actual size (courtesy Godfrey Louis). The shaded area represents the state of Kerala in India. (Courtesy Nichalp)The scientists agree on two points, though. The things look like cells, at least superficially. And no one is sure what they are.
“These particles have much similarity with biological cells though they are devoid of DNA,” wrote Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar of Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, India, in the controversial paper.
“Are these cell-like particles a kind of alternate life from space?”
The mystery began when the scarlet showers containing the red specks hit parts of India in 2001. Researchers said the particles might be dust or a fungus, but it remained unclear.
The new paper includes a chemical analysis of the particles, a description of their appearance under microscopes and a survey of where they fell. It assesses various explanations for them and concludes that the specks, which vaguely resemble red blood cells, might have come from a meteor.
A peer-reviewed research journal, Astrophysics and Space Science, has agreed to publish the paper. The journal sometimes publishes unconventional findings, but rarely if ever ventures into generally acknowledged fringe science such as claims of extraterrestrial visitors.
If the particles do represent alien life forms, said Louis and Kumar, this would fit with a longstanding theory called panspermia, which holds that life forms could travel around the universe inside comets and meteors.
These rocky objects would thus “act as vehicles for spreading life in the universe,” they added. They posted the paper http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0601022 this week on a database where astronomers often post research papers.
Louis and Kumar have previously posted other, unpublished papers saying the particles can grow if placed in extreme heat, and reproduce. But the Astrophysics and Space Science paper doesn’t include these claims. It mostly limits itself to arguing for the particles’ meteoric origin, citing newspaper reports that a meteor broke up in the atmosphere hours before the red rain.
John Dyson, managing editor of Astrophysics and Space Science, confirmed it has accepted the paper. But he said he hasn’t read it because his co-managing editor, the European Space Agency’s Willem Wamsteker, handled it. Wamsteker died several weeks ago at age 63.
A paper’s publication in a peer-reviewed journal is generally thought to give it some stamp of scientific seriousness, because scientists vet the findings in the process. Nonetheless, the red rain paper provoked disbelief.
“I really, really don’t think they are from a meteor!” wrote Harvard University biologist Jack Szostak of the particles, in an email. And this isn’t the first report of red rain of biological origin, Szostak wrote, though it seems to be the most detailed.
Szostak said the chemical tests the researchers employed aren’t very sensitive. The so-called cells are admittedly “weird,” he added, saying he would ask his microbiologist friends what they think they are.
“I don’t have an obvious explanation,” agreed prominent origins-of-life researcher David Deamer of the University of California Santa Cruz, in an email. They “look like real cells, but with a very thick cell wall. But the leap to an extraterrestrial form of life delivered to Earth must surely be the least likely hypothesis.”
A range of additional tests is needed, he added. Louis agreed: “There remains much to be studied,” he wrote in an email.
The researchers didn’t dispute the panspermia theory itself, which has a substantial scientific following. “Panspermia may well be possible,” wrote Lynn J. Rothschild of the NASA Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., in an email. “I’m just not so sure that this is a case of it.”
Others viewed the study more favorably.
“I think more careful examination of the red rain material is needed, but so far there seems to be a strong prima facie [first-glance] case to suggest that this may be correct,” said Chandra Wickramasinghe, director of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology at Cardiff University, U.K., and a leading advocate of panspermia.
The story of the specks began on July 25, 2001, when residents of Kerala, a state in southwestern India, started seeing scarlet rain in some areas.
“Almost the entire state, except for two northern districts, have reported these unusual rains over the past week,” the BBC online reported on July 30. “Experts said the most likely reason was the presence of dust in the atmosphere which colours the water.”
The explanation didn’t satisfy everyone.
The rain “is eluding explanations as the days go by,” the newspaper Indian Express reported online a week later. The article said the Centre for Earth Science Studies, based in Thiruvananthapuram, India, had discarded an initial hypothesis that a streaking meteor triggered the rain, in favor of the view that the particles were spores from a fungus.
But “the exact species is yet to be identified. [And] how such a large quantity of spores could appear over a small region is as yet unknown,” the paper quoted center director M. Baba as saying. Baba didn’t return an email from World Science this week.
The red rain continued to appear sporadically for about two months, though most of it fell in the first 10 days, Louis and Kumar wrote. The “striking red colouration” turned out to come from microscopic, mixed-in red particles, they added, which had “no similarity with usual desert dust.”
At least 50,000 kg (55 tons) of the particles have fallen in all, they estimated. “An analysis of this strange phenomenon further shows that the conventional atmospheric transport processes like dust storms etc. cannot explain” it.
“The red particles were uniformly dispersed in the rainwater,” they wrote. “When the red rainwater was collected and kept for several hours in a vessel, the suspended particles have a tendency to settle to the bottom.”
“The red rain occurred in many places during a continuing normal rain,” the paper continued. “It was reported from a few places that people on the streets found their cloths stained by red raindrops. In a few places the concentration of particles were so great that the rainwater appeared almost like blood.”
The precipitation, the researchers added, had a “highly localized appearance. It usually occur[ed] over an area of less than a square kilometer to a few square kilometers. Many times it had a sharp boundary, which means while it was raining strongly red at a place a few meters away there were no red rain.” A typical red rain lasted from a few minutes to less than about 20 minutes, they added.
The scientists compiled charts of where and when the showers occurred based on local newspaper reports.
The particles look like one-celled organisms and are about 4 to 10 thousandths of a millimeter wide, the researchers wrote, somewhat larger than typical bacteria.
“Under low magnification the particles look like smooth, red coloured glass beads. Under high magnifications (1000x) their differences in size and shape can be seen,” they wrote.
“Shapes vary from spherical to ellipsoid and slightly elongated… These cell-like particles have a thick and coloured cell envelope, which can be well identified under the microscope.” A few had broken cell envelopes, they added.
The particles seem to lack a nucleus, the core DNA-containing compartment that animal and plant cells have, the researchers wrote. Chemical tests indicated they also lacked DNA, the gene-carrying molecule that most types of cells contain.
Nonetheless, Louis and Kumar wrote that the particles show “fine-structured membranes” under magnification, like normal cells.
The outer envelope seems to contain an “inner capsule,” they added, which in some places “appears to be detached from the outer wall to form an empty region inside the cell. Further, there appears to be a faintly visible mucus layer present on the outer side of the cell.”
“One characteristic feature is the inward depression of the spherical surface to form cup like structures giving a squeezed appearance,” which varies among particles, they added.
“The major constituents of the red particles are carbon and oxygen,” they wrote. Carbon is the key component of life on Earth. “Silicon is most prominent among the minor constituents” of the particles, Louis and Kumar added; other elements found were iron, sodium, aluminum and chlorine.
“The red rain started in the State during a period of normal rain, which indicate that the red particles are not something which accumulated in the atmosphere during a dry period and washed down on a first rain,” the pair wrote.
“Vessels kept in open space also collected red rain. Thus it is not something that is washed out from rooftops or tree leaves. Considering the huge quantity of red particles fallen over a wide geographic area, it is impossible to imagine that these are some pollen or fungal spores which have originated from trees,” they added.
“The nature of the red particles rules out the possibility that these are dust particles from a distant desert source,” they wrote, and such particles “are not found in Kerala or nearby place.”
One easy assumption is that they “got airlifted from a distant source on Earth by some wind system,” they added, but this leaves several puzzles.
“One characteristic of each red rain case is its highly localized appearance. If particles originate from distant desert source then why [was] there were no mixing and thinning out of the particle collection during transport”? they wrote.
“It is possible to explain this by assuming the meteoric origin of the red particles. The red rain phenomenon first started in Kerala after a meteor airburst event, which occurred on 25th July 2001 near Changanacherry in [the] Kottayam district. This meteor airburst is evidenced by the sonic boom experienced by several people during early morning of that day.
“The first case of red rain occurred in this area few hours after the airburst... This points to a possible link between the meteor and red rain. If particle clouds are created in the atmosphere by the fragmentation and disintegration of a special kind of fragile cometary meteor that presumably contain[s] a dense collection of red particles, then clouds of such particles can mix with the rain clouds to cause red rain,” they wrote.
The pair proposed that while approaching Earth at low angle, the meteor traveled southeast above Kerala with a final airburst above the Kottayam district. “During its travel in the atmosphere it must have released several small fragments, which caused the deposition of cell clusters in the atmosphere.”
Alive or dead, the particles have some staying power, if the paper is correct. “Even after storage in the original rainwater at room temperature without any preservative for about four years, no decay or discolouration of the particles could be found.”
http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/exclusives-nfrm/060104_specks.htm
Cheers,
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 19 2006, 12:49 AM
QUOTE
Earth rocks could have taken life to Titan
- 18:08 17 March 2006
- NewScientist.com news service
- Maggie McKee, Houston
Boulders blasted away from the Earth's surface after a major impact could have travelled all the way to the outer solar system, new calculations reveal. The work suggests that terrestrial microbes on the rocks could in theory have landed on Saturn's giant moon, Titan. But whether they could have survived once there remains unclear.
The fact that meteorites from the Moon and Mars have landed on Earth confirms that impacts on solar system bodies can launch rocky debris to other planets. And previous studies have suggested that any life on the rocks could have survived the launch blast and the radiation and chill of the journey through space, assuming it lasted less than a few million years.
Such hardiness raises the possibility that life on Earth itself was seeded from space – a concept called http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925411.900.html. But now, researchers led by Brett Gladman of the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, have analysed the reverse situation – that life on Earth seeded other bodies in the solar system. Gladman presented the results on Thursday at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston, Texas, US.
He says only boulders at least 3 metres across could punch out through the Earth's atmosphere and escape the planet's gravity, and that only extremely powerful impacts could achieve this. The cause of such impacts would be comets or asteroids between 10 and 50 kilometres wide, Gladman told New Scientist: "The kind of thing that killed the dinosaurs."
Brick wall
The team ran computer models of such giant impacts, estimating that each would send about 600 million boulders into space to orbit the Sun. Some of those launched at relatively high speeds – faster than 6 kilometres per second – got as far as Jupiter and Saturn in about a million years.
In the simulations, about 100 of the boulders from each impact reached Jupiter's moon Europa. But along the way, Jupiter's gravity boosted their speed to an average of 25 km/s, with some moving as fast as 40 km/s. Impacting Europa's icy crust at such speeds would be like "hitting a brick wall," says Gladman. "This must be rather frustrating if you're a bacterium that survived launch from Earth."
But he found a different situation on Saturn's moon Titan, which boasts a thick atmosphere. About 30 boulders from each Earth impact reached Titan, and they slammed into the atmosphere at just 11 km/s – slower than most meteors hit Earth's atmosphere. "Those reaching Titan can aerobrake and drop their fragments onto the surface," says Gladman.
Home from home?
"That kind of entry should be no problem" for life to survive, says Allan Treiman of the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston, who notes that researchers recently found bacteria that appear to have http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925413.100.html when it re-entered Earth's atmosphere in 2003. And Earthly http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn8297.html when exposed to the harsh environment of space.
"I thought the Titan result was really surprising – how many would get there and how slowly they'd land," Treiman told New Scientist. "The thing I don't know about is if there are any bugs on Earth that would be happy living on Titan." Titan's surface temperature is a very cold -179C and its chemistry is very different from Earth's.
Gladman agrees that life may be unlikely to survive once on Titan. But he says major impacts may have happened "tens of times" throughout Earth's history and that these could have sent Earth rocks to other solar system bodies. "I just set out to answer this question: is it possible to get something there?" he says. "The answer is yes."
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn8867-earth-rocks-could-have-taken-life-to-titan.html
Any comments specifically on the underlined statement above?
Cheers,
Posted by: shivani Mar 19 2006, 12:54 AM
QUOTE
Such hardiness raises the possibility that life on Earth itself was seeded from space
This is a theroy much talked about... but there is no evidence to support it. Or maybe none I have come across so far.
BTW did You watch the program they earlier program (sometime in Jan) when the shuttle reached Titan ? Its a really amazing star
.
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 19 2006, 01:06 AM
QUOTE(shivani @ Mar 19 2006, 12:54 AM)
QUOTE
Such hardiness raises the possibility that life on Earth itself was seeded from space
This is a theroy much talked about... but there is no evidence to support it. Or maybe none I have come across so far.
BTW did You watch the program they earlier program (sometime in Jan) when the shuttle reached Titan ? Its a really amazing star
. Yeah there is no acknowledged evidence yet to support this theory but then there are so many things which are just in theory...
I didn't saw the program you mentioned
. Couple of weeks back, Nat-Geo was showing a documentary which analyzed all the possible candidates where life can be found/survive (Mars, Europa, Titan etc...)On related note, I think you must have come across http://mars.google.com and http://moon.google.com.
Cheers,
Posted by: shivani Mar 19 2006, 01:17 AM
Ah!
There was a show they did on Titan, and how the satellites sent there started transmittign the data back. I think the name was Cassini. They showed the surface of Titan, and what is it made of.
It has surface and atmosphere quite similar to earth's when life formed here.
It has volcanic eruptions as well.. only of nitrogen.. which was quite fascinating.
Would try to find the link onlien and paste.. amazing watch.
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 19 2006, 01:36 AM
Yeah, Cassini it was (the satellite sent to study Saturn's moons). The pictures sent by satellite led to speculations that one of the other moon of Saturn may have water in liquid form under its icy crust...
Do post the link if you get it...
Cheers,
Posted by: shivani Mar 19 2006, 01:41 AM
oh no.. it is not water.. it is nitrogen Oxide : ). I watched the show on tv, about 4 months ago.. so do not remember a lot else..
Would try to search.
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 19 2006, 01:57 AM
Ohk... I must have mixed up then. Remember vaguely about some liquid water geyser-like thing suspected on one of these bodies. Will check up the newsletter again...
Cheers,
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 19 2006, 02:00 AM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Aug 31 2005, 03:19 PM)
Just for an update, Cassini recorded yesterday giant water plumes on Enceladus. Astronomers are baffled again. Extremely tall water geysers are spouting out of the planet's interiors.
Water thrills them. But why this energy activity? Not known yet.
Water thrills them. But why this energy activity? Not known yet.
Shivani, I think I was referring to an article based on this. Mixed up between two moons of Saturn (Titan and Enceladus)
Cheers,
Posted by: Mandrake Mar 19 2006, 07:26 AM
Nice going fellas. Keep it up 
Btw, Cassini was the bloke who stared at saturn so much that the rings parted. And the gap between them came to be known as the Cassini Division...
And yes, Titan has so much of crude oil, that if we could lay a pipeline from there to earth, petrol in India would cost 1 rupee/litre
Also, just a humble thought for logical people like you two: it would be nice if one doesn't always look for hardcore evidence first up. Often, to believe in a possibility, and then trying to follow up and see whether that might work, leads one to hitherto unseen things....
Just my way of looking at things... 
Posted by: shivani Mar 19 2006, 10:40 AM
QUOTE
Par woh Judge Dread (Shivani) maanti nahi na
.. so am judge dread!!!
I really really missed it till today.
and ye lo
Posted by: catch22 Mar 19 2006, 02:45 PM
QUOTE
it would be nice if one doesn't always look for hardcore evidence first up. Often, to believe in a possibility, and then trying to follow up and see whether that might work, leads one to hitherto unseen things....
QUOTE
I'd rather call those biased who believe in evolution, where not a single shred of evidence has been uncovered about the changeover from ape to man.
QUOTE
I treat Mahabharat as a true fact.
Does all this say something?
Posted by: Mandrake Mar 19 2006, 03:22 PM
lol, Catch, you seem to be putting me in a spot
Well, I AM allowed to change my views, aren't I?
Anyways, if you look hard enough, you might see the correctness of those statements.
The first (statement) is to make a positive beginning.
The second was, when a lot of things have been tried, and don't stick well enough, then to be pragmatic and try looking at the issue differently. (I have no issues at all if evolution is proved. Ditto, if it is proved otherwise. There is no victory to be won on any one stand. I am just curious about the truth that EMERGES, than the one that might be ENFORCED.)
The third statement is based on hardcore archaeological evidences. (Now don't ask me to start proving everything )
Posted by: catch22 Mar 19 2006, 03:27 PM
We would only want to believe what we want to.
Posted by: priya Mar 19 2006, 09:57 PM
I came here looking for little green men.
When are these programs on National Geographic, ZZZ? We got the channel only a month back. Last yr they cut it for some reason known only to them. 
Posted by: Nimii Mar 19 2006, 09:59 PM
Priyz it happens.. good channels always get snipped off midway 
N
Posted by: shivani Mar 19 2006, 10:04 PM
Priya
You mean to say.. you actually use that remote to switch channels from that blasted soap opera channel 
You ok gurlie ???
( )
Posted by: Mandrake Mar 19 2006, 10:18 PM
Priya, are you looking for what clicks or stinks for the little green men?
If so, I'll redirect them to the appropriate thread...
Posted by: priya Mar 19 2006, 11:26 PM
QUOTE(shivani @ Mar 19 2006, 10:04 PM)
Priya
You mean to say.. you actually use that remote to switch channels from that blasted soap opera channel
You ok gurlie ???
( )
You mean to say.. you actually use that remote to switch channels from that blasted soap opera channel
You ok gurlie ???
(
) My channels are like this
1. Star One
2. Sony
3. Animal Planet
4. Star Plus
5. Star World
6. NDTV
7. MTV (when Asha vids are in the market
)8. Star Movies
9. Zee (the channel
)10. Discovery
11. National Geo
12. History
13. BBC
Then all as they keep changing.
Me watch soaps. Tumko koi problem hai?
Posted by: priya Mar 19 2006, 11:27 PM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Mar 19 2006, 10:18 PM)
Priya, are you looking for what clicks or stinks for the little green men?
If so, I'll redirect them to the appropriate thread...
If so, I'll redirect them to the appropriate thread...
Jo badalke pyaar kare woh pyaar nahin sauda kare.
So asking them to turn brown and tall spoils the deal na. Isliye back to the sad species wunly.
U are in touch with them?
I knew that encyclo thing couldn't be all U. 
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 20 2006, 12:18 AM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Mar 19 2006, 07:26 AM)
Also, just a humble thought for logical people like you two: it would be nice if one doesn't always look for hardcore evidence first up. Often, to believe in a possibility, and then trying to follow up and see whether that might work, leads one to hitherto unseen things....
Just my way of looking at things...
Agreed. On the subject of aliens, I believe, hardcore evidence is hard to find (no pun intended).
Posted by: Mandrake Mar 20 2006, 08:28 AM
QUOTE(priya @ Mar 19 2006, 11:27 PM)
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Mar 19 2006, 10:18 PM)
Priya, are you looking for what clicks or stinks for the little green men?
If so, I'll redirect them to the appropriate thread...
If so, I'll redirect them to the appropriate thread...
Jo badalke pyaar kare woh pyaar nahin sauda kare.
So asking them to turn brown and tall spoils the deal na. Isliye back to the sad species wunly.
U are in touch with them?
I knew that encyclo thing couldn't be all U. Jo sachcha pyar karte hain, woh apne aap ko badalte bhi hain... usey sauda nahi pyar kehte hain
What makes you think martians are more intelligent? Actually, the truth is, my source comes from a little further ahead...Jupiter
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 20 2006, 10:43 AM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Mar 20 2006, 08:28 AM)
What makes you think martians are more intelligent? Actually, the truth is, my source comes from a little further ahead...Jupiter
Sabu? Are you Chacha Chowdhury
? That explains ki aapka dimaag computer se bhi tej kyon chalta hai... Cheers,
Posted by: shivani Mar 20 2006, 10:47 AM
Sigh!
Quite possible!
and Vivek.. why do I feel you might be the Saboo 
(PS : My last spam here.. lest the great master throws me out)
Posted by: Mandrake Mar 20 2006, 10:48 AM
Vivek, computer jaise khilone toh sirf HF pe posting karne ke liye istemaal kiye jaate hain...
...not for serious stuff 
What do you think life will be like when we have uncovered the fundamental concepts of energy conversion?
Posted by: Mandrake Mar 20 2006, 10:50 AM
Shivani, who dares throw you out? The Great Master means? Pradeep? Why should he? I think you are doing a great job here...
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 20 2006, 10:58 AM
QUOTE(shivani @ Mar 20 2006, 10:47 AM)
Sigh!
Quite possible!
and Vivek.. why do I feel you might be the Saboo
(PS : My last spam here.. lest the great master throws me out)
Quite unlikely for me to be Saboo. Size does matter you see
Cheers,
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 20 2006, 11:02 AM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Mar 20 2006, 10:48 AM)
Vivek, computer jaise khilone toh sirf HF pe posting karne ke liye istemaal kiye jaate hain...
...not for serious stuff
What do you think life will be like when we have uncovered the fundamental concepts of energy conversion?
Issey khilona to na kaho - means of earning livelihood for some
Cheers,
Posted by: Mandrake Mar 20 2006, 11:07 AM
So who said that living cannot be earned out of toys?
Leo-Mattel, FischerPrice, and a host of others would vouch for it
And what about computer games? Don't the makers of that too make money?
lol... sorry if I rubbed anybody wrong. Never the intention...
Posted by: vivekpm Mar 20 2006, 11:45 AM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Mar 20 2006, 11:07 AM)
So who said that living cannot be earned out of toys?
Leo-Mattel, FischerPrice, and a host of others would vouch for it
And what about computer games? Don't the makers of that too make money?
lol... sorry if I rubbed anybody wrong. Never the intention...
lol... Was just kidding. You didnt rubbed anyone wrong here
Cheers,
Posted by: Nimii Mar 20 2006, 01:01 PM
QUOTE(shivani @ Mar 20 2006, 10:47 AM)
Sigh!
(PS : My last spam here.. lest the great master throws me out)
(PS : My last spam here.. lest the great master throws me out)
That is why I am
scared to even tread here Posted by: Nimii Mar 20 2006, 01:03 PM
An interesting read on this site.. Ppl who havent been here may go ahead and read it.
http://www.unexplainable.net/artman/exec/view.cgi/5/220
N
Posted by: vivekpm Oct 28 2006, 02:22 PM
QUOTE
Soil minerals point to planet-wide ocean on Mars
An ocean of water once wrapped around Mars, suggests the discovery of soil chemicals by NASA’s rovers. But the same chemicals also indicate that life was not widespread on the planet at the time the ocean was present.
Sulphates, which form most readily in liquid water, had already been detected by the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. The minerals have been interpreted as evidence for past bodies of water on the surface. But it has not been clear how large these bodies of water might have been.
Now, a new analysis of rover data suggests that the sulphates were once dissolved in a planet-wide ocean. The study was carried out by James Greenwood of Wesleyan University and Ruth Blake of Yale University, both in Connecticut, US.
The researchers point out that phosphates, which are also linked to water, are also present at both sites. More importantly, the ratio of phosphates to sulphates is about the same at both locations. They say the most likely explanation for this is that any local variations were smoothed out by mixing in a planet-wide ocean.
Acidic sea
Some researchers argue that a broad, flat area in Mars's northern hemisphere is the relic of an ancient ocean, and point to rock weathering that could have been caused by seawater. But the uniform phosphorus-to-sulphur ratio is the first chemical evidence that such a large body of water might have once existed.
The phosphorus was probably leached from rocks in the form of calcium phosphate, the researchers say. The fact that it appears to have been dissolved and mixed with sulphates in large amounts suggests that the hypothesised ocean must have been very acidic, because calcium phosphate only dissolves well in acidic water.
A phosphorus-rich ocean is a bad sign for past Mars life. Phosphorus is an important element for life on Earth, and is quickly extracted from the environment by organisms. If life were extensive on Mars, it would not have left so much phosphorus dissolved in the water, the researchers say.
"To a first order approximation, you couldn't have had a biosphere that was anything like the one on Earth," Greenwood says.
Lots of lakes?
Michael Wyatt of Brown University in Rhode Island, US, says the idea of a past ocean on Mars fits well with the phosphorus and sulphur data, but adds that several smaller bodies of water might also explain it.
"It's kind of hard to pin down smaller bodies of water versus one large ocean," he told New Scientist. Another possible explanation for the data would be many bodies of water that have similar chemistry, he says.
The researchers admit that the similar phosphate-to-sulphate ratio seen on opposite sides of the planet could also arise if wind mixed these materials together after the bodies of water disappeared.
Journal reference: Geology (vol 34, p 953)
An ocean of water once wrapped around Mars, suggests the discovery of soil chemicals by NASA’s rovers. But the same chemicals also indicate that life was not widespread on the planet at the time the ocean was present.
Sulphates, which form most readily in liquid water, had already been detected by the Spirit and Opportunity rovers. The minerals have been interpreted as evidence for past bodies of water on the surface. But it has not been clear how large these bodies of water might have been.
Now, a new analysis of rover data suggests that the sulphates were once dissolved in a planet-wide ocean. The study was carried out by James Greenwood of Wesleyan University and Ruth Blake of Yale University, both in Connecticut, US.
The researchers point out that phosphates, which are also linked to water, are also present at both sites. More importantly, the ratio of phosphates to sulphates is about the same at both locations. They say the most likely explanation for this is that any local variations were smoothed out by mixing in a planet-wide ocean.
Acidic sea
Some researchers argue that a broad, flat area in Mars's northern hemisphere is the relic of an ancient ocean, and point to rock weathering that could have been caused by seawater. But the uniform phosphorus-to-sulphur ratio is the first chemical evidence that such a large body of water might have once existed.
The phosphorus was probably leached from rocks in the form of calcium phosphate, the researchers say. The fact that it appears to have been dissolved and mixed with sulphates in large amounts suggests that the hypothesised ocean must have been very acidic, because calcium phosphate only dissolves well in acidic water.
A phosphorus-rich ocean is a bad sign for past Mars life. Phosphorus is an important element for life on Earth, and is quickly extracted from the environment by organisms. If life were extensive on Mars, it would not have left so much phosphorus dissolved in the water, the researchers say.
"To a first order approximation, you couldn't have had a biosphere that was anything like the one on Earth," Greenwood says.
Lots of lakes?
Michael Wyatt of Brown University in Rhode Island, US, says the idea of a past ocean on Mars fits well with the phosphorus and sulphur data, but adds that several smaller bodies of water might also explain it.
"It's kind of hard to pin down smaller bodies of water versus one large ocean," he told New Scientist. Another possible explanation for the data would be many bodies of water that have similar chemistry, he says.
The researchers admit that the similar phosphate-to-sulphate ratio seen on opposite sides of the planet could also arise if wind mixed these materials together after the bodies of water disappeared.
Journal reference: Geology (vol 34, p 953)
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn10389-soil-minerals-point-to-planetwide-ocean-on-mars.html
Cheers,
Posted by: Reeth Oct 30 2006, 12:00 AM
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Jul 20 2005, 06:41 PM)
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Jul 20 2005, 03:47 PM)
If they are extinct, tough luck.
But if they are not, just imagine...
They sent us a signal/s hundreds of years back, when they were already advanced. Today, if they receive our reply, and they still exist, they will be far more advanced.
So they can understand our reply, decipher it, locate us, and reach us - in a way that is still beyond us, as our space travel abilities are far too primitive.
FYI, NASA has beamed out a coded signal since 1975 (or around that time), indicating our location, our (man's) existence and our technological ability. It is coded, and not obvious, for 2 reasons:
1. If there is a more intelligent species out there, they may be able to interpret it and try and respond.
2. If the species is predatory, the assumption is that they may not be intellectually advanced. This MIGHT avert the possibility of them searching us out with the intention of attacking us.
It is assumed that if an alien species has the ability to find us, reach us and attack us, we may not have the wherewithall to defend ourselves.
I don't need to tell you, but this signal communication between two species on different planets is termed 'encounter of the first kind'.
But if they are not, just imagine...
They sent us a signal/s hundreds of years back, when they were already advanced. Today, if they receive our reply, and they still exist, they will be far more advanced.
So they can understand our reply, decipher it, locate us, and reach us - in a way that is still beyond us, as our space travel abilities are far too primitive.
FYI, NASA has beamed out a coded signal since 1975 (or around that time), indicating our location, our (man's) existence and our technological ability. It is coded, and not obvious, for 2 reasons:
1. If there is a more intelligent species out there, they may be able to interpret it and try and respond.
2. If the species is predatory, the assumption is that they may not be intellectually advanced. This MIGHT avert the possibility of them searching us out with the intention of attacking us.
It is assumed that if an alien species has the ability to find us, reach us and attack us, we may not have the wherewithall to defend ourselves.
I don't need to tell you, but this signal communication between two species on different planets is termed 'encounter of the first kind'.
Mandrake, you have brought to light one more interesting point, what if they are superior to us? On they finding us or we finding them it may create trouble...
Cheers,
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Jan 7 2006, 03:23 PM)
QUOTE
Skepticism greets claim of possible alien microbes
Jan. 5, 2006
Special to World Science
A paper to appear in a scientific journal claims a strange red rain might have dumped microbes from space onto Earth four years ago.
But the report is meeting with a shower of skepticism from scientists who say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof—and this one hasn’t got it.
The particles at about 1000 times actual size (courtesy Godfrey Louis).
The shaded area represents the state of Kerala in India. (Courtesy Nichalp)
The scientists agree on two points, though. The things look like cells, at least superficially. And no one is sure what they are.
“These particles have much similarity with biological cells though they are devoid of DNA,” wrote Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar of Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, India, in the controversial paper.
“Are these cell-like particles a kind of alternate life from space?”
The mystery began when the scarlet showers containing the red specks hit parts of India in 2001. Researchers said the particles might be dust or a fungus, but it remained unclear.
The new paper includes a chemical analysis of the particles, a description of their appearance under microscopes and a survey of where they fell. It assesses various explanations for them and concludes that the specks, which vaguely resemble red blood cells, might have come from a meteor.
A peer-reviewed research journal, Astrophysics and Space Science, has agreed to publish the paper. The journal sometimes publishes unconventional findings, but rarely if ever ventures into generally acknowledged fringe science such as claims of extraterrestrial visitors.
If the particles do represent alien life forms, said Louis and Kumar, this would fit with a longstanding theory called panspermia, which holds that life forms could travel around the universe inside comets and meteors.
These rocky objects would thus “act as vehicles for spreading life in the universe,” they added. They posted the paper http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0601022 this week on a database where astronomers often post research papers.
Louis and Kumar have previously posted other, unpublished papers saying the particles can grow if placed in extreme heat, and reproduce. But the Astrophysics and Space Science paper doesn’t include these claims. It mostly limits itself to arguing for the particles’ meteoric origin, citing newspaper reports that a meteor broke up in the atmosphere hours before the red rain.
John Dyson, managing editor of Astrophysics and Space Science, confirmed it has accepted the paper. But he said he hasn’t read it because his co-managing editor, the European Space Agency’s Willem Wamsteker, handled it. Wamsteker died several weeks ago at age 63.
A paper’s publication in a peer-reviewed journal is generally thought to give it some stamp of scientific seriousness, because scientists vet the findings in the process. Nonetheless, the red rain paper provoked disbelief.
“I really, really don’t think they are from a meteor!” wrote Harvard University biologist Jack Szostak of the particles, in an email. And this isn’t the first report of red rain of biological origin, Szostak wrote, though it seems to be the most detailed.
Szostak said the chemical tests the researchers employed aren’t very sensitive. The so-called cells are admittedly “weird,” he added, saying he would ask his microbiologist friends what they think they are.
“I don’t have an obvious explanation,” agreed prominent origins-of-life researcher David Deamer of the University of California Santa Cruz, in an email. They “look like real cells, but with a very thick cell wall. But the leap to an extraterrestrial form of life delivered to Earth must surely be the least likely hypothesis.”
A range of additional tests is needed, he added. Louis agreed: “There remains much to be studied,” he wrote in an email.
The researchers didn’t dispute the panspermia theory itself, which has a substantial scientific following. “Panspermia may well be possible,” wrote Lynn J. Rothschild of the NASA Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., in an email. “I’m just not so sure that this is a case of it.”
Others viewed the study more favorably.
“I think more careful examination of the red rain material is needed, but so far there seems to be a strong prima facie [first-glance] case to suggest that this may be correct,” said Chandra Wickramasinghe, director of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology at Cardiff University, U.K., and a leading advocate of panspermia.
The story of the specks began on July 25, 2001, when residents of Kerala, a state in southwestern India, started seeing scarlet rain in some areas.
“Almost the entire state, except for two northern districts, have reported these unusual rains over the past week,” the BBC online reported on July 30. “Experts said the most likely reason was the presence of dust in the atmosphere which colours the water.”
The explanation didn’t satisfy everyone.
The rain “is eluding explanations as the days go by,” the newspaper Indian Express reported online a week later. The article said the Centre for Earth Science Studies, based in Thiruvananthapuram, India, had discarded an initial hypothesis that a streaking meteor triggered the rain, in favor of the view that the particles were spores from a fungus.
But “the exact species is yet to be identified. [And] how such a large quantity of spores could appear over a small region is as yet unknown,” the paper quoted center director M. Baba as saying. Baba didn’t return an email from World Science this week.
The red rain continued to appear sporadically for about two months, though most of it fell in the first 10 days, Louis and Kumar wrote. The “striking red colouration” turned out to come from microscopic, mixed-in red particles, they added, which had “no similarity with usual desert dust.”
At least 50,000 kg (55 tons) of the particles have fallen in all, they estimated. “An analysis of this strange phenomenon further shows that the conventional atmospheric transport processes like dust storms etc. cannot explain” it.
“The red particles were uniformly dispersed in the rainwater,” they wrote. “When the red rainwater was collected and kept for several hours in a vessel, the suspended particles have a tendency to settle to the bottom.”
“The red rain occurred in many places during a continuing normal rain,” the paper continued. “It was reported from a few places that people on the streets found their cloths stained by red raindrops. In a few places the concentration of particles were so great that the rainwater appeared almost like blood.”
The precipitation, the researchers added, had a “highly localized appearance. It usually occur[ed] over an area of less than a square kilometer to a few square kilometers. Many times it had a sharp boundary, which means while it was raining strongly red at a place a few meters away there were no red rain.” A typical red rain lasted from a few minutes to less than about 20 minutes, they added.
The scientists compiled charts of where and when the showers occurred based on local newspaper reports.
The particles look like one-celled organisms and are about 4 to 10 thousandths of a millimeter wide, the researchers wrote, somewhat larger than typical bacteria.
“Under low magnification the particles look like smooth, red coloured glass beads. Under high magnifications (1000x) their differences in size and shape can be seen,” they wrote.
“Shapes vary from spherical to ellipsoid and slightly elongated… These cell-like particles have a thick and coloured cell envelope, which can be well identified under the microscope.” A few had broken cell envelopes, they added.
The particles seem to lack a nucleus, the core DNA-containing compartment that animal and plant cells have, the researchers wrote. Chemical tests indicated they also lacked DNA, the gene-carrying molecule that most types of cells contain.
Nonetheless, Louis and Kumar wrote that the particles show “fine-structured membranes” under magnification, like normal cells.
The outer envelope seems to contain an “inner capsule,” they added, which in some places “appears to be detached from the outer wall to form an empty region inside the cell. Further, there appears to be a faintly visible mucus layer present on the outer side of the cell.”
“One characteristic feature is the inward depression of the spherical surface to form cup like structures giving a squeezed appearance,” which varies among particles, they added.
“The major constituents of the red particles are carbon and oxygen,” they wrote. Carbon is the key component of life on Earth. “Silicon is most prominent among the minor constituents” of the particles, Louis and Kumar added; other elements found were iron, sodium, aluminum and chlorine.
“The red rain started in the State during a period of normal rain, which indicate that the red particles are not something which accumulated in the atmosphere during a dry period and washed down on a first rain,” the pair wrote.
“Vessels kept in open space also collected red rain. Thus it is not something that is washed out from rooftops or tree leaves. Considering the huge quantity of red particles fallen over a wide geographic area, it is impossible to imagine that these are some pollen or fungal spores which have originated from trees,” they added.
“The nature of the red particles rules out the possibility that these are dust particles from a distant desert source,” they wrote, and such particles “are not found in Kerala or nearby place.”
One easy assumption is that they “got airlifted from a distant source on Earth by some wind system,” they added, but this leaves several puzzles.
“One characteristic of each red rain case is its highly localized appearance. If particles originate from distant desert source then why [was] there were no mixing and thinning out of the particle collection during transport”? they wrote.
“It is possible to explain this by assuming the meteoric origin of the red particles. The red rain phenomenon first started in Kerala after a meteor airburst event, which occurred on 25th July 2001 near Changanacherry in [the] Kottayam district. This meteor airburst is evidenced by the sonic boom experienced by several people during early morning of that day.
“The first case of red rain occurred in this area few hours after the airburst... This points to a possible link between the meteor and red rain. If particle clouds are created in the atmosphere by the fragmentation and disintegration of a special kind of fragile cometary meteor that presumably contain[s] a dense collection of red particles, then clouds of such particles can mix with the rain clouds to cause red rain,” they wrote.
The pair proposed that while approaching Earth at low angle, the meteor traveled southeast above Kerala with a final airburst above the Kottayam district. “During its travel in the atmosphere it must have released several small fragments, which caused the deposition of cell clusters in the atmosphere.”
Alive or dead, the particles have some staying power, if the paper is correct. “Even after storage in the original rainwater at room temperature without any preservative for about four years, no decay or discolouration of the particles could be found.”
Jan. 5, 2006
Special to World Science
A paper to appear in a scientific journal claims a strange red rain might have dumped microbes from space onto Earth four years ago.
But the report is meeting with a shower of skepticism from scientists who say extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof—and this one hasn’t got it.
The particles at about 1000 times actual size (courtesy Godfrey Louis). The shaded area represents the state of Kerala in India. (Courtesy Nichalp)The scientists agree on two points, though. The things look like cells, at least superficially. And no one is sure what they are.
“These particles have much similarity with biological cells though they are devoid of DNA,” wrote Godfrey Louis and A. Santhosh Kumar of Mahatma Gandhi University in Kottayam, India, in the controversial paper.
“Are these cell-like particles a kind of alternate life from space?”
The mystery began when the scarlet showers containing the red specks hit parts of India in 2001. Researchers said the particles might be dust or a fungus, but it remained unclear.
The new paper includes a chemical analysis of the particles, a description of their appearance under microscopes and a survey of where they fell. It assesses various explanations for them and concludes that the specks, which vaguely resemble red blood cells, might have come from a meteor.
A peer-reviewed research journal, Astrophysics and Space Science, has agreed to publish the paper. The journal sometimes publishes unconventional findings, but rarely if ever ventures into generally acknowledged fringe science such as claims of extraterrestrial visitors.
If the particles do represent alien life forms, said Louis and Kumar, this would fit with a longstanding theory called panspermia, which holds that life forms could travel around the universe inside comets and meteors.
These rocky objects would thus “act as vehicles for spreading life in the universe,” they added. They posted the paper http://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/0601022 this week on a database where astronomers often post research papers.
Louis and Kumar have previously posted other, unpublished papers saying the particles can grow if placed in extreme heat, and reproduce. But the Astrophysics and Space Science paper doesn’t include these claims. It mostly limits itself to arguing for the particles’ meteoric origin, citing newspaper reports that a meteor broke up in the atmosphere hours before the red rain.
John Dyson, managing editor of Astrophysics and Space Science, confirmed it has accepted the paper. But he said he hasn’t read it because his co-managing editor, the European Space Agency’s Willem Wamsteker, handled it. Wamsteker died several weeks ago at age 63.
A paper’s publication in a peer-reviewed journal is generally thought to give it some stamp of scientific seriousness, because scientists vet the findings in the process. Nonetheless, the red rain paper provoked disbelief.
“I really, really don’t think they are from a meteor!” wrote Harvard University biologist Jack Szostak of the particles, in an email. And this isn’t the first report of red rain of biological origin, Szostak wrote, though it seems to be the most detailed.
Szostak said the chemical tests the researchers employed aren’t very sensitive. The so-called cells are admittedly “weird,” he added, saying he would ask his microbiologist friends what they think they are.
“I don’t have an obvious explanation,” agreed prominent origins-of-life researcher David Deamer of the University of California Santa Cruz, in an email. They “look like real cells, but with a very thick cell wall. But the leap to an extraterrestrial form of life delivered to Earth must surely be the least likely hypothesis.”
A range of additional tests is needed, he added. Louis agreed: “There remains much to be studied,” he wrote in an email.
The researchers didn’t dispute the panspermia theory itself, which has a substantial scientific following. “Panspermia may well be possible,” wrote Lynn J. Rothschild of the NASA Ames Research Center in Moffett Field, Calif., in an email. “I’m just not so sure that this is a case of it.”
Others viewed the study more favorably.
“I think more careful examination of the red rain material is needed, but so far there seems to be a strong prima facie [first-glance] case to suggest that this may be correct,” said Chandra Wickramasinghe, director of the Cardiff Centre for Astrobiology at Cardiff University, U.K., and a leading advocate of panspermia.
The story of the specks began on July 25, 2001, when residents of Kerala, a state in southwestern India, started seeing scarlet rain in some areas.
“Almost the entire state, except for two northern districts, have reported these unusual rains over the past week,” the BBC online reported on July 30. “Experts said the most likely reason was the presence of dust in the atmosphere which colours the water.”
The explanation didn’t satisfy everyone.
The rain “is eluding explanations as the days go by,” the newspaper Indian Express reported online a week later. The article said the Centre for Earth Science Studies, based in Thiruvananthapuram, India, had discarded an initial hypothesis that a streaking meteor triggered the rain, in favor of the view that the particles were spores from a fungus.
But “the exact species is yet to be identified. [And] how such a large quantity of spores could appear over a small region is as yet unknown,” the paper quoted center director M. Baba as saying. Baba didn’t return an email from World Science this week.
The red rain continued to appear sporadically for about two months, though most of it fell in the first 10 days, Louis and Kumar wrote. The “striking red colouration” turned out to come from microscopic, mixed-in red particles, they added, which had “no similarity with usual desert dust.”
At least 50,000 kg (55 tons) of the particles have fallen in all, they estimated. “An analysis of this strange phenomenon further shows that the conventional atmospheric transport processes like dust storms etc. cannot explain” it.
“The red particles were uniformly dispersed in the rainwater,” they wrote. “When the red rainwater was collected and kept for several hours in a vessel, the suspended particles have a tendency to settle to the bottom.”
“The red rain occurred in many places during a continuing normal rain,” the paper continued. “It was reported from a few places that people on the streets found their cloths stained by red raindrops. In a few places the concentration of particles were so great that the rainwater appeared almost like blood.”
The precipitation, the researchers added, had a “highly localized appearance. It usually occur[ed] over an area of less than a square kilometer to a few square kilometers. Many times it had a sharp boundary, which means while it was raining strongly red at a place a few meters away there were no red rain.” A typical red rain lasted from a few minutes to less than about 20 minutes, they added.
The scientists compiled charts of where and when the showers occurred based on local newspaper reports.
The particles look like one-celled organisms and are about 4 to 10 thousandths of a millimeter wide, the researchers wrote, somewhat larger than typical bacteria.
“Under low magnification the particles look like smooth, red coloured glass beads. Under high magnifications (1000x) their differences in size and shape can be seen,” they wrote.
“Shapes vary from spherical to ellipsoid and slightly elongated… These cell-like particles have a thick and coloured cell envelope, which can be well identified under the microscope.” A few had broken cell envelopes, they added.
The particles seem to lack a nucleus, the core DNA-containing compartment that animal and plant cells have, the researchers wrote. Chemical tests indicated they also lacked DNA, the gene-carrying molecule that most types of cells contain.
Nonetheless, Louis and Kumar wrote that the particles show “fine-structured membranes” under magnification, like normal cells.
The outer envelope seems to contain an “inner capsule,” they added, which in some places “appears to be detached from the outer wall to form an empty region inside the cell. Further, there appears to be a faintly visible mucus layer present on the outer side of the cell.”
“One characteristic feature is the inward depression of the spherical surface to form cup like structures giving a squeezed appearance,” which varies among particles, they added.
“The major constituents of the red particles are carbon and oxygen,” they wrote. Carbon is the key component of life on Earth. “Silicon is most prominent among the minor constituents” of the particles, Louis and Kumar added; other elements found were iron, sodium, aluminum and chlorine.
“The red rain started in the State during a period of normal rain, which indicate that the red particles are not something which accumulated in the atmosphere during a dry period and washed down on a first rain,” the pair wrote.
“Vessels kept in open space also collected red rain. Thus it is not something that is washed out from rooftops or tree leaves. Considering the huge quantity of red particles fallen over a wide geographic area, it is impossible to imagine that these are some pollen or fungal spores which have originated from trees,” they added.
“The nature of the red particles rules out the possibility that these are dust particles from a distant desert source,” they wrote, and such particles “are not found in Kerala or nearby place.”
One easy assumption is that they “got airlifted from a distant source on Earth by some wind system,” they added, but this leaves several puzzles.
“One characteristic of each red rain case is its highly localized appearance. If particles originate from distant desert source then why [was] there were no mixing and thinning out of the particle collection during transport”? they wrote.
“It is possible to explain this by assuming the meteoric origin of the red particles. The red rain phenomenon first started in Kerala after a meteor airburst event, which occurred on 25th July 2001 near Changanacherry in [the] Kottayam district. This meteor airburst is evidenced by the sonic boom experienced by several people during early morning of that day.
“The first case of red rain occurred in this area few hours after the airburst... This points to a possible link between the meteor and red rain. If particle clouds are created in the atmosphere by the fragmentation and disintegration of a special kind of fragile cometary meteor that presumably contain[s] a dense collection of red particles, then clouds of such particles can mix with the rain clouds to cause red rain,” they wrote.
The pair proposed that while approaching Earth at low angle, the meteor traveled southeast above Kerala with a final airburst above the Kottayam district. “During its travel in the atmosphere it must have released several small fragments, which caused the deposition of cell clusters in the atmosphere.”
Alive or dead, the particles have some staying power, if the paper is correct. “Even after storage in the original rainwater at room temperature without any preservative for about four years, no decay or discolouration of the particles could be found.”
http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/exclusives-nfrm/060104_specks.htm
Cheers,
QUOTE(vivekpm @ Mar 19 2006, 12:49 AM)
QUOTE
Earth rocks could have taken life to Titan
- 18:08 17 March 2006
- NewScientist.com news service
- Maggie McKee, Houston
Boulders blasted away from the Earth's surface after a major impact could have travelled all the way to the outer solar system, new calculations reveal. The work suggests that terrestrial microbes on the rocks could in theory have landed on Saturn's giant moon, Titan. But whether they could have survived once there remains unclear.
The fact that meteorites from the Moon and Mars have landed on Earth confirms that impacts on solar system bodies can launch rocky debris to other planets. And previous studies have suggested that any life on the rocks could have survived the launch blast and the radiation and chill of the journey through space, assuming it lasted less than a few million years.
Such hardiness raises the possibility that life on Earth itself was seeded from space a concept called http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925411.900.html. But now, researchers led by Brett Gladman of the University of British Columbia in Vancouver, Canada, have analysed the reverse situation that life on Earth seeded other bodies in the solar system. Gladman presented the results on Thursday at the Lunar and Planetary Science Conference in Houston, Texas, US.
He says only boulders at least 3 metres across could punch out through the Earth's atmosphere and escape the planet's gravity, and that only extremely powerful impacts could achieve this. The cause of such impacts would be comets or asteroids between 10 and 50 kilometres wide, Gladman told New Scientist: "The kind of thing that killed the dinosaurs."
Brick wall
The team ran computer models of such giant impacts, estimating that each would send about 600 million boulders into space to orbit the Sun. Some of those launched at relatively high speeds faster than 6 kilometres per second got as far as Jupiter and Saturn in about a million years.
In the simulations, about 100 of the boulders from each impact reached Jupiter's moon Europa. But along the way, Jupiter's gravity boosted their speed to an average of 25 km/s, with some moving as fast as 40 km/s. Impacting Europa's icy crust at such speeds would be like "hitting a brick wall," says Gladman. "This must be rather frustrating if you're a bacterium that survived launch from Earth."
But he found a different situation on Saturn's moon Titan, which boasts a thick atmosphere. About 30 boulders from each Earth impact reached Titan, and they slammed into the atmosphere at just 11 km/s slower than most meteors hit Earth's atmosphere. "Those reaching Titan can aerobrake and drop their fragments onto the surface," says Gladman.
Home from home?
"That kind of entry should be no problem" for life to survive, says Allan Treiman of the Lunar and Planetary Institute in Houston, who notes that researchers recently found bacteria that appear to have http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/mg18925413.100.html when it re-entered Earth's atmosphere in 2003. And Earthly http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn8297.html when exposed to the harsh environment of space.
"I thought the Titan result was really surprising how many would get there and how slowly they'd land," Treiman told New Scientist. "The thing I don't know about is if there are any bugs on Earth that would be happy living on Titan." Titan's surface temperature is a very cold -179C and its chemistry is very different from Earth's.
Gladman agrees that life may be unlikely to survive once on Titan. But he says major impacts may have happened "tens of times" throughout Earth's history and that these could have sent Earth rocks to other solar system bodies. "I just set out to answer this question: is it possible to get something there?" he says. "The answer is yes."
http://www.newscientistspace.com/article/dn8867-earth-rocks-could-have-taken-life-to-titan.html
Any comments specifically on the underlined statement above?
Cheers,
Very interesting topic.......i hope we have more discussions on this...
Posted by: Mandrake Nov 8 2006, 04:51 PM
QUOTE
Very interesting topic.......i hope we have more discussions on this...
So what's stopping us?
Have a go, Reeth
Posted by: Nimii Nov 10 2006, 12:09 PM
Well Mandrake everyone has "alienated" this thread so to say There are more burning issues to talk about psssstttttt than discuss poor aliens 
Posted by: Mandrake Nov 10 2006, 12:30 PM
It depends on one's outlook
One can make a home in even the most hostile conditions. The Space Centre is one such place.
They've found microbes on Mars.
We are said to have come here on the backs of comets.
So it is only a matter of proper approach
Posted by: Nimii Nov 10 2006, 12:52 PM
QUOTE
One can make a home in even the most hostile conditions. The Space Centre is one such place.
May be they can send me! I have already received training for that
and I seem to have emerged stronger and tougher! Good effect indeed!
Posted by: Mandrake Nov 10 2006, 12:59 PM
For 20 million Ewe-ace dhaalers you can take a trip for sure
Posted by: Nimii Nov 10 2006, 01:14 PM
Ok back to some serious stuff. Where did u read about us comin on the back of comets? 
This one is really new to me!
Posted by: Mandrake Nov 10 2006, 01:54 PM
New? This one is as old as the hills...so to say
The earth came to life on its own according to some scientists, from the primordial soup.
It gave rise to all the mono-cellular/multicellular organisms that form the low life.
But it is said that the seeds of human origin came riding on the backs of comets that criss-crossed the solar system...
OOOOPS!!! Bibhas and Shivani, if you are reading this, I am dead 
Posted by: Reeth Nov 10 2006, 05:37 PM
slight deviation from the above discussion.....
Source: Your Guide to UFOs /Aliens
LATEST UFO SIGHTING REPORTS
TENNESSE- OCTOBER 24
The witness was driving to work when he saw a round glowing object in the sky.
the sight of the UFO would come and go because of trees on the landscape between
him and the object.finally he lost sight of the object, but after he arrived at his work
spot , it appeared again.He could hear no sounds or see no lights, but states that the
object was black.
WASHINGTON- NOVEMBER 2
The witness was travelling East on Highway 7, when he saw a star/triangle shaped
object with sready lights. the witness has seen many aircrafts before, living close to
the McCord Air Base, but never an object like the one reported.The object moved
through the sky until it suddenly disappeared.
There were sightings earlier on the 17 th October and 22nd October............many more earlier
Going by the frequency of the reports there seems regular traffiking(excuse the spelling) of UFOs
(different shapes and sizes too)at all times.......LOL
they seem to come and go as they please.....
There is a sighting every other day.............now we have to wait for the day when they decide to
make a grand landing at Heathrow or Mumbai.........or may be at namma Bengaluru??
Posted by: Mandrake Nov 10 2006, 06:41 PM
Reeth, which year are these events from? Not this year I believe?
UFOs are in love with USA. Thet are only seen there.
That's because since the Star Wars program, US govt has been trying out lot of advanced aircraft manouvres. The general public cannot be informed as these are top secret weapons.
Posted by: Nimii Nov 10 2006, 06:54 PM
I remember watching a tv serial on Star Plus some years back called X Files and it had paranormal activity based stories apparently said to be true stories! A few of the episodes were on UFOs. Intriguing but I difficult to digest
And like Mandrake said I wonder why UFOs seem to love only US, and they seem to short cut all other places and prefer the skies there! Wonder why
Posted by: Mandrake Nov 10 2006, 07:06 PM
Told you why, na? 
When the public outcry became too loud to ignore over frequent sightings, the US govt set up a mission called Project Bluebook, which systematically proceeded to investigate each report of sighting and concluded that each and every sighting was an illusion!!
That even whole plane-loads of passengers reported UFOs flying next to their aircraft was explained away as lightning bouncing off the nearby clouds -- on perfect weather nights!!
Posted by: Nimii Nov 10 2006, 07:10 PM
Ailaaaaaaaa aisa kya Sigh why do I never see any when I fly the skies I even flew the American skies on their horrible mini planes UFOs ko chorro the airhostesses bhi layak nahi they dekhne ofc Stewards to 
Posted by: Reeth Nov 10 2006, 07:21 PM
QUOTE(Mandrake @ Nov 10 2006, 06:41 PM)
Reeth, which year are these events from? Not this year I believe?
UFOs are in love with USA. Thet are only seen there.
That's because since the Star Wars program, US govt has been trying out lot of advanced aircraft manouvres. The general public cannot be informed as these are top secret weapons.
Reports for 2006....
QUOTE(Nimii @ Nov 10 2006, 06:54 PM)
I remember watching a tv serial on Star Plus some years back called X Files and it had paranormal activity based stories apparently said to be true stories! A few of the episodes were on UFOs. Intriguing but I difficult to digest
And like Mandrake said I wonder why UFOs seem to love only US, and they seem to short cut all other places and prefer the skies there! Wonder why
Egsatly.......they are never seen at places like gundlupet
................or may be we are an ignorant lot where UFOs are concerned 
Posted by: Nimii Nov 10 2006, 07:25 PM
QUOTE
Egsatly.......they are never seen at places like gundlupet biggrin.gif ................or may be we are an ignorant lot where UFOs are concerned 
Or mebbe we see it as some kind of charisma in the sky - Bhagwaan aaya hai light ke roop! Everyone will go and prostrate before the Light in the Sky(aka UFO - wonder what the aliens must be thinking
)
Posted by: Mandrake Nov 10 2006, 08:28 PM
QUOTE
may be we are an ignorant lot where UFOs are concerned
Are we really?
Do you think americans are more advanced than Indians?
A country where, as late as 1988, a public poll showed that 54% of the americans did not know whether the earth went around the sun or vice versa?
Or watch Richard O'Brian's The Crystal Maze, where they routinely failed tests as simple as 9 x 6 =?
Posted by: vivekpm Jan 9 2007, 11:49 AM
QUOTE
Scientist: NASA found life on Mars -- and killed it
POSTED: 6:44 a.m. EST, January 8, 2007
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Two NASA space probes that visited Mars 30 years ago may have found alien microbes on the Red Planet and inadvertently killed them, a scientist is theorizing.
The Viking space probes of 1976-77 were looking for the wrong kind of life, so they didn't recognize it, a geology professor at Washington State University said.
Dirk Schulze-Makuch presented his theory in a paper delivered at a meeting of the American Astronomical Society in Seattle, Washington.
The paper was released Sunday.
Based on a more expansive view of where life can take root, the paper's findings may prompt NASA to look for a different type of Martian life when its next spacecraft to visit Mars is launched later this year, one of the space agency's top scientists said.
Last month, scientists excitedly reported that new photographs of Mars showed geologic changes that suggest water occasionally flows there -- the most tantalizing sign that Mars is hospitable to life.
In the 1970s, the Viking mission found no signs of life.
But it was looking for Earth-like life, in which salt water is the internal liquid of living cells.
Given the cold dry conditions of Mars, life could have evolved on Mars with the key internal fluid consisting of a mix of water and hydrogen peroxide, said Schulze-Makuch.
That's because a water-hydrogen peroxide mix stays liquid at very low temperatures, or -68 degrees Fahrenheit, and doesn't destroy cells when it freezes. It can suck water vapor out of the air.
The Viking experiments of the 1970s wouldn't have noticed hydrogen peroxide-based life and, in fact, would have killed it by drowning and overheating the microbes, said Schulze-Makuch.
One Viking experiment seeking life on Mars poured water on soil. That would have essentially drowned hydrogen peroxide-based life, he said. And different experiment heated the soil to see if something would happen which would have baked Martian microbes.
"The problem was that they didn't have any clue about the environment on Mars at that time," Schulze-Makuch said. "This kind of adaptation makes sense from a biochemical viewpoint."
Even Earth has something somewhat related. He points to an Earth bug called the bombardier beetle that produces a boiling-hot spray that is 25 percent hydrogen peroxide as a defense weapon.
Schulze-Makuch acknowledges he can't prove that Martian microbes exist, but given the Martian environment and how evolution works, "it makes sense."
In recent years, scientists have found life on Earth in conditions that were once thought too harsh, such as an ultra-acidic river in Spain and ice-covered lakes in Antarctica.
Schulze-Makuch's research coincides with work being completed by a National Research Council panel nicknamed the "weird life" committee. The group worries that scientists may be too Earth-centric when looking for extraterrestrial life.
The problem for scientists is that "you only find what you're looking for," said Penn State University geosciences professor Katherine Freeman, a reviewer of the NRC work.
A new NASA Mars mission called Phoenix is set for launch this summer, and one of the scientists involved said he is eager to test the new theory about life on Mars.
However, scientists must come up with a way to do that using the mission's existing scientific instruments, said NASA astrobiologist and Phoenix co-investigator Chris McKay.
He said the Washington State scientist's paper piqued his interest.
"Logical consistency is nice, but it's not enough anymore," McKay said.
Other experts said the new concept is plausible, but more work is needed before they are convinced.
"I'm open to the possibility that it could be the case," said astrobiologist Mitch Sogin of the Marine Biological Lab in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.
A member of the National Research Council committee, Sogin also cautioned against "just-so stories about what is possible."
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http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/01/07/mars.life.ap/index.html
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