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Hamara Forums _ Sahir Ludhianvi _ Sahir Ludhianvi: Silver Memories

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 2 2006, 07:45 PM

Hi

I am starting a topic on Sahir Ludhianvi that has been posted in another forum before. It was started on his death anniversary, a nostalgia trip beginning with some of his romantic lyrics. Feel free to add on songs that make you feel mmmm....warm and woolly-headed wub.gif, angry and passionate mad.gif, sad and philosophical sleep.gif or just plain confused wacko.gif and... all those other complex emotions related to the thing called ...love??? ninja.gif



Remembering him through his romantic duets:

Situation: Dream Sequence.
To expand upon it: the impoverished hero and the heroine express their love for each other in gorgeous surroundings, which would otherwise not be possible given the hero's depressing penury. Moreover the situation is literally a dream, which is not realised as the heroine later on opts for a more stable marriage with a well established publisher.

Note the wonderful lyrics, the entire song is posed as question upon question with the female counteracting the male's romantic metaphors with her teasing counter images... Wonderfully captures the mood of the film and yet stands on its own as classic romantic chedkhani.



Hum aap ki aankhon mein is dil ko basa dein to
Hum moond ke palkon ko is dil ko saza dein to
Hum aap ki aankhon mein is dil ko basa dein to

In zulfon mein goondege hum phool mohabbat ke
Zulfon ko jhatak kar hum yeh phool gira dein to

Hum aap ko kwaabon mein la la ke satayenge
Hum aap ki aankhon se neendein hi uda de to

Hum aap ke kadmon par gir jayenge ghas khakar
Is par bhi na hum apne aanchal ki hawa dein to

Hum aap ki aankon mein is dil ko basa dein to
Hum moond ke palkon ko is dil ko saza dein to

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 2 2006, 07:51 PM

Scene: Rolling on the haystack singing in pristine urdu:
To expand upon it: Sahir to the rescue, counteracting the physical jiggling and wriggling with his verbal ones: Wonderful, playful intimacy expressed by the girl " khushamad pe itne majboor kyun ho...manane ki aadat kahan pad gayee, satane ki taleem kya ho gayee....
And the same song is played out once again when the couple is separated, this time the khafa is for real...
What a song!

Male:tumhari nazar kyun Khafa ho gayee
Khata baksh do gar khata ho gayee
Female:hamara irada to kuch bhi na tha
tumhari khata khud sazaa ho gayee

Male:Sazaa hi sahi aaj kuch to mila hai
sazaa mein bhi ek pyar ka silsila hai
mohabbat ka ab kuch bhi anjaam ho
mulaqaat ki ek fiza ho gaye

Male:tumhari nazar kyun Khafa ho gayee
Khata baksh do gar khata ho gayee
Female:hamara irada to kuch bhi na tha
tumhari khata khud sazaa ho gayee

Female: Mulaqat par itne magroor kyun ho
Hamari khushamat pe itne majboor kyun ho
Manane ki aadat kahan pad gayee
Satane Ki taleem kya ho gayee

Male:Satate na hum to manate hi kaise
Tumhe hum apne nazdeek laate hi kaise
Isi din ka chahat ko armaan tha
Kubool aaj dil ki dua ho gayee

Male:tumhari nazar kyun Khafa ho gayee
Khata baksh do gar khata ho gayee

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 2 2006, 07:54 PM

Situation: 70s, An adorable Neetu Singh and an adorable Shashi Kapoor tickling each other, on a Jeep...
Music RD Burman... using the top of form voices of Kishore and Asha... One almost does not note the lyrics. Expanding on the scene: Pause and note.... The boy asks the girl to guess what he is thinking about. The girl's imagination in the first stanza, is dreamily romantic, Socha hai tumne ki chalte hi jayen... Taaron se aage koi duniya basayen. The man has more risque thoughts...:Socha hai tumhe rasta bhulayen....

Then the second stanza, girl is no longer taking about taron se aage ki duniya but having masti, the man again is pushing the envelope....Phoolon se hoton ki laali churayen... Haye re na na croons the girl ...Mischevous, playful, risque, the lyrics are in tune with the bell-bottoms and the 70s, carried off wonderfully by the bubbly Neetu and Shashi Kapoor.



Keh doon tumhen ya chup rahoon
Dil mein mere aaj kya hai
Jo bolo to jaanu guru tumko manu
chalo yeh bhi wada hai

Female:Socha hai tumne ke chalte hi jayen
Taron se aage koi duniya basayen,
Theek hai, Aahan
To phir tum batao na...

Male:Socha hai yeh ki tumhe rasta bhulayen
Sooni jagah pe kahin cheden darayen
Hayre naa naa ye na karna

Keh doon tumhen ya chup rahoon
Dil mein mere aaj kya hai
Jo bolo to jaanun
Guru tum ko manun

Female:Socha hai tumne ki kuch gungunayen
Masti mein jhumen zara dhoomen machayen
Ab theek hai, aa huh
Male:Socha hai ye ke tumhen nazdeek layen
Phoolon se hoton ki laali churayen
Haaye na na ye na karna are nahi re nahi re....

Posted by: parag_sankla Jun 2 2006, 08:12 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 2 2006, 03:15 PM) *

Hi

I am starting a topic on Sahir Ludhianvi that has been posted in another forum before. It was started on his death anniversary, a nostalgia trip beginning with some of his romantic lyrics. Feel free to add on songs that make you feel mmmm....warm and woolly-headed wub.gif, angry and passionate mad.gif, sad and philosophical sleep.gif or just plain confused wacko.gif and... all those other complex emotions related with the thing called ...love??? ninja.gif



Remembering him through his romantic duets:

Situation: Dream Sequence.
To expand upon it: the impoverished hero and the heroine express their love for each other in gorgeous surroundings, which would otherwise not be possible given the hero's depressing penury. Moreover the situation is literally a dream, which is not realised as the heroine later on opts for a more stable marriage with a well established publisher.

Note the wonderful lyrics, the entire song is posed as question upon question with the female counteracting the male's romantic metaphors with her teasing counter images... Wonderfully captures the mood of the film and yet stands on its own as classic romantic chedkhani.



Hum aap ki aankhon mein is dil ko basa dein to
Hum moond ke palkon ko is dil ko saza dein to
Hum aap ki aankhon mein is dil ko basa dein to

In zulfon mein goondege hum phool mohabbat ke
Zulfon ko jhatak kar hum yeh phool gira dein to

Hum aap ko kwaabon mein la la ke satayenge
Hum aap ki aankhon se neendein hi uda de to

Hum aap ke kadmon par gir jayenge ghas khakar
Is par bhi na hum apne aanchal ki hawa dein to

Hum aap ki aankon mein is dil ko basa dein to
Hum moond ke palkon ko is dil ko saza dein to



Woww, what a description for such a beautifully rendered song. Sahir saab has written some of the best lyrics in the "Golden" era of 50's and 60's.
The songs/poems of "Pyaasa" are very uniquely different from each other.

Hats off to the genius of Sahir saab, Burmanda, Geetaji , Rafi saab and Hemantda.

Best Regards
Parag

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 7 2006, 02:11 AM

Thanks Parag, for your response.

To continue with Sahir
Still talking of mohabbat...

Here are two songs in very different styles talking about the rest of the world vis a vis the lovers. The mood, the expressions, the perception of love and the world is so different and yet they make the same assertion,that when one is in love, the rest of the world can go take a jump!


The first song is from Tajmahal(1964),a historical film.

The world is ready to punish the lovers, yet it will only stoke the fires...Lata's voice rises to the grand assertion of sahir's verse... Takht kya cheez hai aur lal-o-jwahar kya hai/Ishq wale to khudai bhi luta dete hain...

The lovers have already exchanged their vows, and this precious, unique experience gives them the strength to defy the world: "aap ab shauq se de len jo sazaa deten hain"

Now shift your focus to a contemporary setting, Kabhi Kabhi(1976),two young lovers,rich,without a worry in the world, who don't have a clue about the past passions of their parents, are passionately in love and express their thoughts, in the man's voice...

Pyar is not a jurm, it is not even a "khata" in their context. Pyar kar liya to kya, pyar hai khata nahin(it is love, not a mistake). Love is more accepted."teri meri umr mein kisne ye kiya nahin" The carefree lovers breezily take love in their stride, everyone has experienced it, at least when they were young, and they are not going to let anything stop them.

Main bhi hoshmand hoon, tu bhi hoshmand hai, Us tarah jiyenge hum jis tarah pasand hai...Unki baat kyun sune jinse waasta nahin...

Rasm kya riwaaz kya, dharm kya samaj kya/Dushmano ka khauf kyun,Doston ki laaj kya...They will defy everything for it...



Tajmahal 1964

Jurm e ulfat pe hamen log sazaa dete hain
kaise nadan hain sholon ko hawa dete hain
Jurm-e-ulfat pe

Ham se deewane kahin tarq e wafa karte hain
Jaan jaaye ke rahe baat nibha dete hain

Aap daulat ke tarazu mein dilon ko tolen(2)
Hum mohabbat se mohabbat ka sila dete hain

Takht kya cheez hai aur Lalo jawahar kya hai(2)
Ishq wale to khudai bhi luta dete hain

Ham ne dil de bhi diya ehde wafa le bhi liya(2)
Aap ab shauq se de len jo sazaa dete hain

Jurm-e-ulfat pe hamen log sazaa dete hain..
.


Kabhi Kabhi(1976)

Pyar kar liya to kya
Pyar hai khata nahin
Teri meri umar mein kisne yeh kiya nahin
Pyar kar liya to kya

Tere honth mere hoth sil gaye to kya hua
Dil ki tarah jism bhi mil gaye to kya hua
Isse pehle kya kabhi yeh sitam hua nahin

Main bhi hoshmand hoon tu bhi hoshmand hai
Us tarah jiyenge hum jis tarah pasand hai
Unki baat kyun sune jinse waasta nahin
Pyar kar liya to kya pyar hai khata nahin

Rasm kya riwaaz kya dharm kya samaj kya
dushmano ka khauf kyun, doston ki laaj kya
Yeh wo shauk hai ke jisse koi bhi bacha nahin
Pyar kar liya to kya

Posted by: bawlachintu Jun 8 2006, 05:45 PM

Excellent writeups Madhavi. smile1.gif

Posted by: divz Jun 9 2006, 08:29 PM

madhavi...wonderful thread. and wonderful elucidation of songs...!!! clap1.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jun 9 2006, 08:32 PM

How did I miss this thread by Madhz!!!!!!!!!! bow.gif

Madhz more please more.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Can I give a request so that you can write on it!!!!!!!!!!!!

N clap1.gif clap1.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 9 2006, 09:37 PM

Thanks BC, Divz and Nimii for your warm response. Sure, Nimii would love to oblige you. In the meantime...

The above were typical postures of love, made unique by Sahir's inimitable style, here are some examples of how he dramatically overturns common perceptions of love...

The most famous example is his nazm on the Tajmahal, the eminent metaphor of eternal love. The famous Shakeel Badayuni song, set to the music of Naushad made famous on the screen by Dilip Kumar and Vajyantimala: "Ek Shahenshah ne banwa ke haseen Tajmahal/Sari Duniya ko Mohabbat ki nishani di hai" from Leader,is overturned in this song from Ghazal, set to music by Madan Mohan. Cannot really say that the song is great(musically speaking), and the nazm(originally published in Talkhiyan), is heavily truncated for the movie, yet the fire of Sahir's pen still glitters in this song...


The man asks his beloved to choose a place other than the Tajmahal to meet him. The grandeur of the structure mocks the common man's love, which cannot be expressed so beautifully even when the emotions are pure...Read it in Sahir's own words, I have given a very rough explanation of some of the more uncommon words used in the song.


Taj tere liye ek mazhar-e-ulfat hi sahi
tujhko is wadi-e-rangeen ki aqeedat hi sahi
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse

(mazhar e ulfat=mazhar of love, wadi-e-rangi=beautiful place, aqeedat=faith)


Anginat logon nein duniya mein mohabbat ki hai
kaun kehta hai ki sadiq na the jasbe unke
lekin unke liye tashhir ka samaan nahin
kyunki woh log bhi apni hi tarah muflis the
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse
meri mehboob

(saadiq=pure, tashhir=advertisement,muflis=common man)


yeh chamanzaar, yeh jamuna ka kinara, yeh mahal(2)
Yeh munaqqash dar-o-dewaar, yeh mehraab yeh taaq
ek shahenshah ne daulat ka sahara lekar
hum garibon ki mohabbat ka udaya hai mazaak
meri mehboob meri mehboob,
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse
Meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse

(chamanzaar=garden, munaqqash=decorated,taaq=arch)

Posted by: sri Jun 9 2006, 09:56 PM

Great idea Madhavi......and very well executed !! You do have some talent for writing and expressing...even if you are re-expressing Sahir's great lyrics !!

smile.gif
Sri


Posted by: Nimii Jun 9 2006, 10:05 PM

I am going to spend more time on this thread aaj se!!!!!!!!!!!! WONDERFUL MADHZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

n clap2.gif

Posted by: divz Jun 9 2006, 11:26 PM

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jun 9 2006, 10:05 PM) *
I am going to spend more time on this thread aaj se!!!!!!!!!!!! WONDERFUL MADHZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

n clap2.gif


jahan aap wahan hum... biggrin.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jun 10 2006, 12:26 AM

afraid.gif Ayyo yaad mat dilaana tum!!!!!!!!!!!

Posted by: Talaikya Jun 10 2006, 04:42 AM

Lo! In donon ne bhi rhyming shuru kar diya!! biggrin.gif

Awesome Madhavi. You sure have a gift with 'em words bow.gif clap1.gif It somehow enhances the pleasure of Sahir's poetry.

Posted by: Nimii Jun 10 2006, 07:25 AM

Tji mellow.gif sleep.gif We are trying to be reformed and get educated ok dry.gif , so dont pull our legs ok!

N glare.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jun 10 2006, 07:29 AM

Madhz dearest..

DEKHA HAI ZINDGI KO MAINE ITNA KAREEB SE bow.gif

(EK MAHAL HO SAPNON KA) - SUNG BY GURU - MUSIC - RAVI

Iss song ka description dijiye bow.gif

Looking forward to it eagerly.Thanx a ton in advance !!!!!!!!!!

N bow.gif
ps: Madhz this song is not romantic but a very meaningful one sad1.gif

Posted by: divz Jun 10 2006, 11:21 AM

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jun 10 2006, 07:25 AM) *
Tji mellow.gif sleep.gif We are trying to be reformed and get educated ok dry.gif , so dont pull our legs ok!

N glare.gif


oye i need not be reformed.. i m already well formed.... biggrin.gif dry.gif


Posted by: deewani Jun 10 2006, 11:55 AM

Enjoying the lyrics and background mmuk, thank you.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 10 2006, 10:36 PM

Thanks Sri, Tji and Deewani,

Wonderful to get such a response from Sahir enthusiasts. It is great to share one's ramblings with people who are sympathetic to such inclinations... tongue1.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 10 2006, 10:43 PM

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jun 9 2006, 08:59 PM) *

Madhz dearest..

DEKHA HAI ZINDGI KO MAINE ITNA KAREEB SE bow.gif

(EK MAHAL HO SAPNON KA) - SUNG BY GURU - MUSIC - RAVI

Iss song ka description dijiye bow.gif

Looking forward to it eagerly.Thanx a ton in advance !!!!!!!!!!

N bow.gif
ps: Madhz this song is not romantic but a very meaningful one sad1.gif



NO no Nimii, Ye pyaar ki hi dastaan hai. Man angry and disillusioned in love... sad1.gif
Situation: (Have not seen the movie but am guessing...) Poor hero sings to ex-girlfriend who is probably engaged to someone else.

Very interesting development in the three stanzas
First seems innocuous enough, with the man grateful that he has met his lost love again...

Second...the phrase "Neelaam ho raha tha kisi nazneen ka pyar" suggests a certain helplessness on the part of the girl, as well as the "gareeb" hero unable to pay the "keemat".

Third, bitter bitter..."teri wafa ki laash par" "resham ka kafan" About-turn, now the accused is the girl, not the world as the refrain suggests...

What a wonderful refrain it is though, Sahir playing with the words "kareeb" and "ajeeb", juxtaposing intimacy with strangeness, it funtions on a separate plane from the rest of the song which is bound to the story..."Dekha hai zindagi ko/kuch itna kareeb se/ Chehre tamaam lagne lagen hain ajeeb se". KK puts in all his existential angst(against all those producers/directors/audience who refused to see him in anything but a comical light) in the song. Wonder how Dharam executed the song...anybody who has seen the flick?? It reminds me of another movie where he sings a surprisingly virulent song penned by Anand Bakshi(?!!) aimed at Asha Parekh, I think...(or is it Sharmila Tagore again?), "Mere dushman tu meri dosti ko tarse/Mujhe gham dene wale tu khushi ko tarse" sung with sophisticated control by Rafi.

To come back to this song, here are the lyrics:

Dekha hai zindagi ko
kuch itna kareeb se(2)
Chehre tamaam lagne hain ajeeb se
Dekha hai zindagi ko

Kehne ko dil ki baat
jinhe dhoondte the hum(2)
Mehfil mein aa gaye hain wo
apne naseeb se

Neelam ho raha tha kisi nazneen ka pyar
Neelaam ho raha tha kisi naznee ka pyar
Keemat nahin chukayi gayi ek gareeb se
Dekha hai zindagi ko...

Teri wafa ki laash pe la main hi daal doon
Resham ka ye kafan jo mila hai raqeeb se
Dekha hai zindagi ko...

Raqeeb: Rival/competitor

"Dekha hai zindagi ko" (Ek Mahal Ho Sapno Ka (1975)

Posted by: Nimii Jun 10 2006, 11:26 PM

Madhz I will come up with the description of the picturisation. Have the vcd of the movie.. Next week hi kar sakti hoon itminaan se sigh.gif

I am so glad you taken up this topic!!!!!!!!!! Now I can understand the song better. Thank you dear love.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 11 2006, 12:33 AM

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jun 10 2006, 12:56 PM) *

Madhz I will come up with the description of the picturisation. Have the vcd of the movie.. Next week hi kar sakti hoon itminaan se sigh.gif

I am so glad you taken up this topic!!!!!!!!!! Now I can understand the song better. Thank you dear love.gif



No understanding-wonderstanding Nimz. Just my two chavannis on the songs. wink.gif

Waiting for your descriptions...take your time smile.gif

Posted by: Jay Jun 11 2006, 03:50 AM

great thread, great tribute 2 Sahir.

Posted by: bawlachintu Jun 11 2006, 04:31 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 9 2006, 09:37 PM) *

Thanks BC, Divz and Nimii for your warm response. Sure, Nimii would love to oblige you. In the meantime...

The above were typical postures of love, made unique by Sahir's inimitable style, here are some examples of how he dramatically overturns common perceptions of love...

The most famous example is his nazm on the Tajmahal, the eminent metaphor of eternal love. The famous Shakeel Badayuni song, set to the music of Naushad made famous on the screen by Dilip Kumar and Vajyantimala: "Ek Shahenshah ne banwa ke haseen Tajmahal/Sari Duniya ko Mohabbat ki nishani di hai" from Leader,is overturned in this song from Ghazal, set to music by Madan Mohan. Cannot really say that the song is great(musically speaking), and the nazm(originally published in Talkhiyan), is heavily truncated for the movie, yet the fire of Sahir's pen still glitters in this song...


The man asks his beloved to choose a place other than the Tajmahal to meet him. The grandeur of the structure mocks the common man's love, which cannot be expressed so beautifully even when the emotions are pure...Read it in Sahir's own words, I have given a very rough explanation of some of the more uncommon words used in the song.


Taj tere liye ek mazhar-e-ulfat hi sahi
tujhko is wadi-e-rangeen ki aqeedat hi sahi
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse

(mazhar e ulfat=mazhar of love, wadi-e-rangi=beautiful place, aqeedat=faith)


Anginat logon nein duniya mein mohabbat ki hai
kaun kehta hai ki sadiq na the jasbe unke
lekin unke liye tashhir ka samaan nahin
kyunki woh log bhi apni hi tarah muflis the
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse
meri mehboob

(saadiq=pure, tashhir=advertisement,muflis=common man)


yeh chamanzaar, yeh jamuna ka kinara, yeh mahal(2)
Yeh munaqqash dar-o-dewaar, yeh mehraab yeh taaq
ek shahenshah ne daulat ka sahara lekar
hum garibon ki mohabbat ka udaya hai mazaak
meri mehboob meri mehboob,
meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse
Meri mehboob kahin aur mila kar mujhse

(chamanzaar=garden, munaqqash=decorated,taaq=arch)


Great work Madhavi. U gave me yet another reason to
enjoy lyrics of Sahir and understand him better. smile.gif

Keep posting. Always a joy to read your posts.

As a critic and an admirer I would like to quote here few words

QUOTE
The most striking features of the poetry of Sahir (which literally
means 'enchanter') are intensity of thought, utter sincerity, pathos
for the downtrodden and a novel treatment of his subject matter. In
his immortal poem Taj Mahal, Sahir refused to sing of Shah Jahan's
grandeur and the love he ostensibly had for his queen. For him, the
Taj Mahal is symbol of a tasteless proclamation of love, more
exhibitionist than real. Instead, he eulogized the skill of the
artisans who built the Taj Mahal and lamented at the poor reward they
must have received. Finally, he arrives at the grand finale by
concluding that the great emperor, with the help of his enormous
wealth, ridiculed the love of the poor and the deprived. --Shamim Ahmed



My 2 Atthanis wink.gif

Posted by: oye_sonu Jun 11 2006, 05:46 PM

cool.gif waise apoon Majrooh grp ko belong karta hai. Fir bhi appreciate kar deta hoo thread ko. tongue1.gif


Great thread Madhvi ji. No doubt u write so good. and got good understanding of lyrics.

Lagta mere ko bhi apne pasand ke song per post karne ki request karna padegi(now dont run awy ok tongue1.gif)


Maam I need few classes on good writing skills. unsure.gif
whether iam wrting in Hindi or Eng.....I make mess of my posts even if they have some thing relevant tongue1.gif laugh.gif . Iss bache ko kuch tips do unsure.gif ...any book shook( lo sahir thread ban gaya classroom tongue1.gif )

Infact all those songs u posted above are among my favs........will someday take out these songs and then again read ur posts.( abhi memory kaam enhi kar rahi) smile.gif

thanks again

Thanks

Sonu

Posted by: Nimii Jun 11 2006, 06:29 PM

The picturisation is in a hotel. Sharmila is seated with Ashok Kumar and Dharam is singing in the hotel with a mic.

He is portraying the song very well with the accusing look at Sharmila.. who is uneasy about it. You can see the pain in him when he is relating it .. esp when he sings kehene ki dil ki baat...

Guru's voice fits like hand and glove on Dharam. There is the sarcasm shown clearly that the destiny has played a havoc in his life, with the betrayal of his love. You can see the disturbed look he creates on Sharmila's face.

I love the line neelam ho raha hai ek nazneen ka pyaar.. sigh sigh.gif ..

When Ashok Kumar moves away to answer a phone, he walks towards her with anger.. esp when he sings Teri wafa ki laash pe la main hi daal doon , resham ka ye kafan jo mila hai raqeeb se.. he takes her pallu to denote it as the kafan... and throws it on her head in sheer ire.

Overall a good picturisation Madhz.. I am tryin to see if I can upload the video. Hope some soul would teach me how to rip the song from the vcd sad1.gif

N sad1.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jun 11 2006, 08:44 PM

Managed to rip the song.. in wmv format..

Hope it is ok.

Madhz this one is specially for you! wub.gif

[attachmentid=70969]

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 11 2006, 11:51 PM

Nimz thank you, thank you clap1.gif clap1.gif

Had always wanted to see the picturization. Description was very evocative, Dharam ji is is vakai kaafi garam in the scene. Hope he did not believe that Ashok Kumar was Sharmila's beau. He was looking so fatherly ohmy.gif By the way what do you think AK and ST were miming in the middle of the song? (Chai kaisi hai? biggrin.gif ) Sharmila, inspite of the pencil-thin eyebrows is looking... wub.gif

Excellent rip.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 12 2006, 12:06 AM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Jun 11 2006, 06:01 AM) *


As a critic and an admirer I would like to quote here few words

QUOTE
The most striking features of the poetry of Sahir (which literally
means 'enchanter') are intensity of thought, utter sincerity, pathos
for the downtrodden and a novel treatment of his subject matter. In
his immortal poem Taj Mahal, Sahir refused to sing of Shah Jahan's
grandeur and the love he ostensibly had for his queen. For him, the
Taj Mahal is symbol of a tasteless proclamation of love, more
exhibitionist than real. Instead, he eulogized the skill of the
artisans who built the Taj Mahal and lamented at the poor reward they
must have received. Finally, he arrives at the grand finale by
concluding that the great emperor, with the help of his enormous
wealth, ridiculed the love of the poor and the deprived. --Shamim Ahmed



My 2 Atthanis wink.gif


BC thank you for the informative quote. The lyrics of the film song completely bypassed the sympathy for the artisans that is the counterpoint to Sahir's criticism of the king. Yet the social criticism is still evident in his identification with the common man... "kyunki woh log bhi apni hi tarah muflis the"...what a wonderful line wub.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jun 12 2006, 12:07 AM

I am sure it should have been more than chai kaisi hai laugh.gif but she put the cup(after stirring the sugar) and never took it in her hand to drink it tongue1.gif

More likely AK must have told her how nice he sings (in GURU's voice)..and she is taken up to answer it and says haan ji..

Pencil thin brows.. yayayaya uss zamane ke istyle!!!!!!!!! heheheh.. and not to miss that bumpy bun in the hair to give an uplifted hairdo laugh.gif Typical of those days tongue1.gif

N biggrin.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jun 12 2006, 12:27 AM

Another of my fav.. wordings are beautiful and simple..

Film: Aankhen - featured on Mala Sinha.
Sung by: Lata ji
Music: Ravi

Gairo.n pe karam apano.n pe sitam, ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar
rahane de abhii tho.Daa saa dharam, ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar
ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

Gairo.n ke thirakate shaano.n par, ye haath ga.Nvaaraa kaise kare.n
har baat ga.nvaaraa hai lekin, ye baat ga.nvaaraa kaise kare.n
ye baat ga.nvaaraa kaise kare.n
mar jaae.nge ham, miT jaae.nge ham
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

ham bhii the tere ma.nzuur-e-nazar, dil chaahaa to ab iqaraar na kar
sau tiir chalaa siine pe magar, begaano.n se milakar vaar na kar
begaano.n se milakar vaar na kar
bemaut kahii.n mar jaae.n na ham
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

ham chaahanevaale hai.n tere, yuu.N hamako jalaanaa Thiik nahii.n
mah.hfil me.n tamaashaa ban jaae.n, is darjaa sataanaa Thiik nahii.n
is darjaa sataanaa Thiik nahii.n
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

N rolleyes.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 12 2006, 12:41 AM

QUOTE(oye_sonu @ Jun 11 2006, 07:16 AM) *

cool.gif waise apoon Majrooh grp ko belong karta hai. Fir bhi appreciate kar deta hoo thread ko. tongue1.gif


Great thread Madhvi ji. No doubt u write so good. and got good understanding of lyrics.

Lagta mere ko bhi apne pasand ke song per post karne ki request karna padegi(now dont run awy ok tongue1.gif)


Maam I need few classes on good writing skills. unsure.gif
whether iam wrting in Hindi or Eng.....I make mess of my posts even if they have some thing relevant tongue1.gif laugh.gif . Iss bache ko kuch tips do unsure.gif ...any book shook( lo sahir thread ban gaya classroom tongue1.gif )

Infact all those songs u posted above are among my favs........will someday take out these songs and then again read ur posts.( abhi memory kaam enhi kar rahi) smile.gif

thanks again

Thanks


Sonu


Sonu,

I love Majrooh too. Mazaa ayega agar aap Majrooh par kuch shuroo karen, would love to ramble there too laugh.gif Would be fun to see what they were writing around the same time. No classroom...sab ko bhagane ka irada hai kya wink.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 12 2006, 07:20 PM

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jun 11 2006, 01:57 PM) *

Another of my fav.. wordings are beautiful and simple..

Film: Aankhen - featured on Mala Sinha.
Sung by: Lata ji
Music: Ravi

Gairo.n pe karam apano.n pe sitam, ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar
rahane de abhii tho.Daa saa dharam, ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar
ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

Gairo.n ke thirakate shaano.n par, ye haath ga.Nvaaraa kaise kare.n
har baat ga.nvaaraa hai lekin, ye baat ga.nvaaraa kaise kare.n
ye baat ga.nvaaraa kaise kare.n
mar jaae.nge ham, miT jaae.nge ham
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

ham bhii the tere ma.nzuur-e-nazar, dil chaahaa to ab iqaraar na kar
sau tiir chalaa siine pe magar, begaano.n se milakar vaar na kar
begaano.n se milakar vaar na kar
bemaut kahii.n mar jaae.n na ham
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

ham chaahanevaale hai.n tere, yuu.N hamako jalaanaa Thiik nahii.n
mah.hfil me.n tamaashaa ban jaae.n, is darjaa sataanaa Thiik nahii.n
is darjaa sataanaa Thiik nahii.n
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

N rolleyes.gif


Wah wah, kya song chuna hai. Thank you for the lyrics..."Hum chahne wale hain tere/yun humko jalana theek nahin"... "Gairon pe karam/apno pe sitam/aye janewafa ye zulm na kar". Another song about a "khafa" beloved but once again so much intimacy is implicit in the complaint...

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 12 2006, 07:35 PM

A look now at a song from Trishul(1978), the big post "Kabhi Kabhi" hit from the Chopra camp: Mohabbat Bade Kaam Ki Cheez Hai...

A very popular track of its time, it is a truet, with the upbeat lovers(Shashi and Hema) singing about the wonders of love, and the third voice, (Amitabh, as the disgruntled, disinherited illegitimate son of a rich father), singing the counterpoint to it..."yeh bekar bedaam ki cheez hai"...

The shock value of calling love, bekar and bedaam almost eclipses the other innovative ways that love is being referred to in the song. The song begins with the traditional romantic setting of mohabbat"Har taraf husn hai...reshmi jism...marmari khwab...suroor phaila hai and then suddenly at the end of the stanza comes the almost shockingly casual way of expressing love...Mohabbat bade kaam ki cheez hai...

Similarly in the second stanza, once again the traditional references to love merge, outrageously, but for the lovers almost logically, in this assertion..."Yehi ek aaram ki cheez hai". Mohabbat as "kaam ki cheez" "araam ki cheez"... certainly the purists of love would be dismayed at these references, what happened to all the traditional references to "tadap", "jalan" and the other tortuous and tortured emotions that love has demanded from lovers down the ages...

The third voice darkens the atmosphere considerably with his brooding...Haqeeqat ki duniya mein chahat nahi hai...Zamane ke bazaar mein ye woh shai hai,Ki jiski kisiko zaroorat nahi hai...One cannot help but feel that Sahir's personal disenchantment seeps through the voice of his character...

Har taraf husn hai jawani hai
Aaj ki raat kya suhani hai
Reshmi jisme thartharate hain,
marmari khwab gungunate hain
Dharkaon mein suroor phaila hai
Rang nazdeek o door phaila hai
Dawate ishq de rahi hai fazaa
aaj ho ja kisi haseen pe fida...ke
Mohabbat bade kaam ki cheez hai(2)
Mohabbat bade kaam ki cheez hai

Mohabbat ke dam se hai duniya ki raunak
Mohabbat na hoti to kuch bhi na hota
Nazar aur dil ke panaho ki khatir
Ye Jannat na hoti to kuch bhi na hota
Yehi ek aaram ki cheez hai, kaam ki cheez hai
Mohabbat bade kaam ki cheez hai(2)

Kitabon mein chapte hai chahat ke kisse
Haqueeqat ki duniya mein chahat nahin hai
Zamane ke bazaar mein ye woh shay hai
Ki jiski kisi ko zaroorat nahi hai
Ye bekaar bedaam ki cheez hai
Ye kudrat ke inaam ki cheez hai
Ye bas naam hi naam ki cheez hai
Kaam ki cheez hai,
Mohabbat bade kaam ki cheez hai

Mohabbat se itna khafa hone wale
chal aa aaj tujhko mohabbat sikha den
Tera dil jo barson se veeran pada hai
Kisi nazneena ko isme mein basa dein
Mera mashwara kaam ki cheez hai
Mohabbat Bade kaam ki cheez hai...
Ye bekaar bedaam ki cheez hai
Mohabbat bade kaam ki cheez hai(4)


Apart from Jaidev and Khaiyyam I don't think any other md used Yesudas for Amitabh, or did they? Nimz since you are playing the Yesudas tracks at the moment, you are the current expert... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jun 12 2006, 07:40 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 12 2006, 07:20 PM) *
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jun 11 2006, 01:57 PM) *

Another of my fav.. wordings are beautiful and simple..

Film: Aankhen - featured on Mala Sinha.
Sung by: Lata ji
Music: Ravi

Gairo.n pe karam apano.n pe sitam, ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar
rahane de abhii tho.Daa saa dharam, ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar
ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

Gairo.n ke thirakate shaano.n par, ye haath ga.Nvaaraa kaise kare.n
har baat ga.nvaaraa hai lekin, ye baat ga.nvaaraa kaise kare.n
ye baat ga.nvaaraa kaise kare.n
mar jaae.nge ham, miT jaae.nge ham
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

ham bhii the tere ma.nzuur-e-nazar, dil chaahaa to ab iqaraar na kar
sau tiir chalaa siine pe magar, begaano.n se milakar vaar na kar
begaano.n se milakar vaar na kar
bemaut kahii.n mar jaae.n na ham
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

ham chaahanevaale hai.n tere, yuu.N hamako jalaanaa Thiik nahii.n
mah.hfil me.n tamaashaa ban jaae.n, is darjaa sataanaa Thiik nahii.n
is darjaa sataanaa Thiik nahii.n
ai jaan-e-vafaa ye zulm na kar, ye zulm na kar
Gairo.n pe karam ...

N rolleyes.gif


Wah wah, kya song chuna hai. Thank you for the lyrics..."Hum chahne wale hain tere/yun humko jalana theek nahin"... "Gairon pe karam/apno pe sitam/aye janewafa ye zulm na kar". Another song about a "khafa" beloved but once again so much intimacy is implicit in the complaint...


Yes me into these kinda songs only these days tongue1.gif
Thankz Madhz

Posted by: Nimii Jun 12 2006, 07:42 PM

QUOTE
Apart from Jaidev and Khaiyyam I don't think any other md used Yesudas for Amitabh, or did they? Nimz since you are playing the Yesudas tracks at the moment, you are the current expert...


None that I can I think of Madhz.. Yesudas was most often used on heros who were the next door kind guys. Seldom on action heros!

N

Posted by: oye_sonu Jun 13 2006, 02:46 AM

hi my request.
EK ghazal jo Sahir saab ko kaafi aziz thi. Sahir never wanted this to be used for a film song. He agreed only when he was satisifed with MM's tune.

Mujhe isse dil se sunne kaafi arsa ho gaya.......sad songs ab history hai mere liye. but wanted to tell abt this ghazal which Sahir liked so much. and which no Sahir fan can ignore

would appreciate ur views on it.( kuch bhi........jitna bhi.........kaisa bhi....views biggrin.gif )

Rang aaur noor

(Ghazal , madan mohan , sahir , mohd rafi)

rang aaur noor kee baaraat kise pesh karu
ye muraadon kee haseen raat kise pesh karu

maine jajabaat nibhaaye hain usulon kee jagah
apane aramaan peero laayaa hoo, foolon kee jagah
tere chehare kee ye saugaat kise pesh karu

kaun kahataa hai, ke chaahat pe sabhee kaa hak hai
too jise chaahe teraa pyaar usee kaa hak hai
muz se kah de, main teraa haath kise pesh karu

surkha jode kee tabotaab mubaarak ho tuze
teree aakhon kaa nayaa khwaab mubaarak ho tuze
mai ye khwaayish ye khayaalaat kise pesh karu



Open to corrections

Sonu

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 15 2006, 02:08 AM

Lovely song Sonu, thank you for writing down the lyrics. It definitely makes one take a closer look at the song.

Surprisingly Sahir and MM collaborated in just three films, Railway Platform(1955), Ghazal(1964), Laila Majnu(1976)...wonder why? and that too with gaps that are ten years long. Sahir was particular about the way his lyrics were set to music and hence known to interfere with the music directors, I remember reading in an article on Chitragupt that that was one of the reasons why Chitragupt composed very few songs for Sahir.

The song has three versions. One by Lata and two by Rafi. I am uploading all three. The song that I am uploading has a different arrangement of the stanzas from the one you penned down plus an additional stanza so I am taking the liberty to repeat the lyrics.

Lata version:
Nagma o sher ki saugat kise pesh karun
Ye chanakte hue jazbaat kise pesh karun
Shok aankhon ke ujalon ko lutaun kis per
Mast zulphon siyah raat kise pesh karun

Garm saason mein chupe raaz bataun kisko(2)
Narm hoton mein dabi baat kise pesh karun
Koi hamraaz to payun koi hamdam to mile
Dil ke dhadkan ke isharaat kise pesh karun
Nagma o sher ki saugaat


Rafi version 2:
Ishq ke garmiye jazbaat kise pesh karun
Ye sulagte hue din raat kise pesh karun
Teri awaaz ke jadu ne jagaya hai jinhe(2)
wo tasavvur wo khayalat kise pesh karun

Aye meri jaane ghazal aye meri imaane ghazal
Ab siva tere ye naghmaat kise pesh karun

Koi hamraaz to paayun koi hamdam to mile(2)
Dil ke dhadkan ke ishaarat kise pesh karun


Rafi version 1:
Rang aur noor ki baraat kise pesh karoon
Ye muradon ki haseen raat kise pesh karoon

Maine jazbaat nibhayen hain usulon ki jagah(2)
Apne armaan piro layan hoon phoolon ki jagah
Tere sehre ki ye saugat kise pesh karoon
Ye muradon ki haseen raat kise pesh karoon

Ye mere sher mere aakhri nazrane hain(2)
Main un apno mein hoon jo aaj se begaane hain
Betaauluk si mulaaqat kise pesh karoon
Ye muradon ki...

Surkh jode ki tabo taab mubarak ho tujhe(2)
Teri aankhon ka naya khwaab mubarak ho tujhe
Main ye khwaish ye khayalat kise pesh karoon
Ye muradon ki...

Kaun kehta hai ke chahat pe sabhi ka haq hai(2)
Tu jise chahe tera pyar usi ka haq hai
Mujh se kehde(2), main tera haath kise pesh karoon
Ye muradon ki...


So many lines stand out in Sahir's songs surprising you out of set modes of thinking and moralities...

"Maine jazbaat nibhayen hai usuloon ki jagah"

"Kaun kehta hai ke chahat pe sabhi ka haq hai/Tu jise chahe tera pyar usi ka haq hai".
The claim of rejected lovers, that which they console themselves with, the right to the emotion of love itself is wrested from them here and granted to the beloved.

"Mujh se keh de...Rafi voice lingers on this indulgent phrase and then repeats it emotively before completing the statement that is the final sacrifice of the lover, "main tera haath kise pesh karun". The rhetorical question of "rang aur noor ki barat kise pesh karun", underlining the destitiution of the lover has reached its tragic conclusion, in this gesture of the last stanza which is again stated in the form of a question.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 22 2006, 02:49 AM

Pyar mein ek aur twist...

The Scene: Initial stages of romance, the lovers have not yet committed to each other, the girl is being wooed in a unique style...
Tum agar mujhko na chaho to koi baat nahin
Tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi

The use of mushkil here can be interpreted either way, the casual "mushkil hogi"-it will be a problem- or the more intimate "mushkil hogi" - it will hurt him.

Compromise is the order of the day...
ab agar mel nahin hai to judai bhi nahin
He is resigned to this positive confusion in his life cool.gif
Baat todi bhi nahin tumne banai bhi nahin"

The man is ready to view the situation from her point of view and is sympathetic of her plight...
Tum haseen ho tumhe sab pyar karte honge/Main jo marta hoon aur bhi marte honge
and offers her a way out...
Mere gham me na karaho to koi baat nahin,
aur ke gham me karahogi to mushkil hogi
Tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi...


Such flirtation with words...

Dil Hi To Hai (1963)
tum agar na mujhko na chaho to koi baat nahin
tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi
tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi

Ab agar mel nahin hai to judai bhi nahin
baat todi bhi nahin tumne banai bhi nahin
yeh sahara hi bahut hai mere jeene ke liye
tum agar meri nahin ho to parayi bhi nahin
mere dil ko na saraho(2) to koi baat nahin(2)
gair ke dil ko sarahogi to mushkil hogi
Tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi

Tum haseen ho tumhen sab pyar hi karte honge
main jo marta hoon to kya, aur bhi marte honge
sab ki aankhon mein kisi shauq ka toofan hoga
sab ke seene mein yehi dard ubharte honge
mere gham mein na karaho(2) to koi baat nahin(2)
aur ke gham mein karahogi to mushkil hogi
Tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi

Phool ki tarha haso sab ki nigahon mein raho
apni masoom jawani ki panahon mein raho
mujhko woh din na dikhana tumhe apne hi kasam
main tarasta rahoon tum gairki baahon mein raho
tum jo mujhse na nibaho(2) to koi baat nahin(2)
kisi dushman se nibahogi to mushkil hogi...
Tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi


The lover's negative assertion of his claim is done with a blend of wryness and tenderness towards his beloved that is pitched in the scene perfectly by Raj Kapoor...

Posted by: Nimii Jun 22 2006, 09:17 AM

Madhz.. haaye kya gaana chhuna hai aap ne bow.gif

Beautiful!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ham to fida hogaye hai!!!!!!!!!!! wub.gif

tum agar na mujhko na chaho to koi baat nahin
tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi
tum kisi aur ko chahogi to mushkil hogi..

N party2.gif

Posted by: joshi Jun 28 2006, 12:40 PM

Madhavi ji (if I may address you so),

I've just finished going through this thread. I liked all of your posts but if I may say so, I just loved the one on "meri mehboob kahin aur" (specially how you brought out the contrast with "ek shahenshah ne")...

Posted by: deewani Jun 28 2006, 04:06 PM

That last one is one of my favorites. I particular love the tone in which Mukeshji sings it - to the casual listener it may even sound like a melodious love song, the dard is so well hidden it rips my heart out every time I hear it, and yet I have about 5 playlists of such songs.

Posted by: oye_sonu Jun 28 2006, 07:40 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 15 2006, 03:08 AM) *

Lovely song Sonu, thank you for writing down the lyrics. It definitely makes one take a closer look at the song.
"Maine jazbaat nibhayen hai usuloon ki jagah"

"Kaun kehta hai ke chahat pe sabhi ka haq hai/Tu jise chahe tera pyar usi ka haq hai".
The claim of rejected lovers, that which they console themselves with, the right to the emotion of love itself is wrested from them here and granted to the beloved.

"Mujh se keh de...Rafi voice lingers on this indulgent phrase and then repeats it emotively before completing the statement that is the final sacrifice of the lover, "main tera haath kise pesh karun". The rhetorical question of "rang aur noor ki barat kise pesh karun", underlining the destitiution of the lover has reached its tragic conclusion, in this gesture of the last stanza which is again stated in the form of a question.


bow.gif thank you Madhvi ji for accpeting my request. and writing on this song.
Sorry for late reply. had few problems/exams etc.

Actually I had read the post, dloaded the song. and when I was abt to reply I felt i shd paste pics of sahir also, so postponed it. but laterz couldnt locate it then. and then took few days break.....just came today.

Again very well written. I think u got nice knwoledge of urdu words also.
Apna haath urdu mein bhi tang hai tongue1.gif

Thanks again

God bless

Sonu

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 28 2006, 10:53 PM

QUOTE(joshi @ Jun 28 2006, 02:10 AM) *

Madhavi ji (if I may address you so),

I've just finished going through this thread. I liked all of your posts but if I may say so, I just loved the one on "meri mehboob kahin aur" (specially how you brought out the contrast with "ek shahenshah ne")...



Joshi ji

Please call me Madhavi. I love that poem too, would like to see how it is picturised though. Video wale log, any one there has the video of Ghazal? Would like to see Sunil Dutt reprimanding Meena Kumari on wanting the Taj for a locale smile.gif


Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 28 2006, 11:01 PM

Thanks Nimz, Deewani and Sonu.

Love and social consciousness...

Two songs(my favorites), two different positions...

In the first the girl disheartened with the world and its inequalities seeks refuge in love,
"Mujhe gale se lagalo bahut udas hoon main" what a beautiful opening line, simple, intimate and vulnerable .... Reminds me of another song sequence/image from "Phir Subah Hogi" Mala Sinha and Raj Kapoor in the title song of the movie,clinging to each other trying to rid each other of the demons of hunger and destitution... Besides the radical social criticism in the lines themselves, it is worth noting that Sahir gives the lines to the girl, not a very common instance in hindi films where the woman is talking and thinking about things other than romance and love.

The lover comforts the girl "Sitam ke haath ki talwar toot jayegi/Ye oonch neech ki dewaar toot jayegi" but the girl is still in the thrall of her disillusionment "Na jane kab ye tareeka ye taur badlega/sitam ka, gham ka, museebat ka daur badlega".


In the second, another duet, this time from Didi in the voices of Mukesh and Sudha Malhotra, what great lines the girl is given, yet again! Just listen to her ..."Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to ye haq hai tumko/Meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai...

The situation is very different, love is not a refuge anymore it is now a hinderance, the lover has to sacrifice his love for the girl for his devotion to a cause. The girl is articulating a more conventional position (expressing her total love and commitment), yet Sahir makes it radical by giving her emotional argument an equal footage with the man's social commitment. The song almost seems to reflect upon Faiz's great "Mujhse pehli si mohabbat mere mehboob na maang...aur bhi dukh hain zamane mein mohabbat ke siwa" and extends it by giving it a female voice that articulates the emotional toll such a commitment can take...

The man's sensitive perception of the hard realities around him impinging upon his romantic commitment is expressed hauntingly in:
"Bhookh aur pyas ki maari hui is duniya mein
Ishq hi ek haqueqat nahi kuch aur bhi hai"...


"Maine tumse hi nahi sabse mohabbat ki hai..."

But, then... what an argument the girl makes for the cause of love...

"Tumko duniya ke ghamo dard se fursat na sahi
Sabse ulfat sahi mujhse hi mohabbat na sahi"



Ravi: Aaj Aur Kal(1963)

Mujhe gale se lagalo bahut udaas hun main
Game jahan se chuda lo
Bahut udaas hoon main...
Mujhe gale se laga lo

Nazar mein teer se chubhte hain ab nazaaron se
Main thak gayee hoon sabhi tootate saharon se
Ab aur bojh na dalo bahut udas hoon main
Mujhe gale se laga lo

Bahut sahe ghame duniya magar udas na ho
Kareeb hai shab-e-gham ki seher udas na ho
Bahut sahe ghame duniya
Sitam ke haath ki talwar toot jayegi
Ye oonch neech ki dewaar toot jayegi
Tujhe kasam hai meri hamsafar udas na ho
Bahut sahe ghame duniya ...


Na jane kab ye tareeka ye taur badlega
Sitam ka, gham ka, museebat ka daur badlega
Mujhe jahan se utha lo
Bahut udaas hoon main....



NDutta Sudha Malhotra: Didi(1959)

Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko
Meri baat kuch aur hai,maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko...

Meri dil ki mere jazbaat ki keemat kya hai
uljhe uljhe se khayalat ki keemat kya hai
Maine kyun pyar kiya tumne na kyun pyar kia
In pareshan sawaalat ki keemat kya hai
Tum jo yeh bhi na batao to yeh haq hai tumko
meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko


Zindagi sirf mohabbat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
zulfo rukhsaar ki jannat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
Bhookh aur pyaas ki maari hui is duniya mein
Ishq hi ek haqeeqat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
Tum agar aankh churao to yeh haq hai tumko
Maine tum se hi nahi sab se mohabbat ki hai
Tum agar aankh churao to yeh haq hai tumko


Tumko duniya ke ghamo dard se fursat na sahi
Sabse ulfat sahi mujhse hi mohabbat na sahi
Main tumhari hoon yehi mere liye kya kam hai
Tum mere ho ke raho yeh meri kismat na sahi
Aur bhi dil to jalao to ye haq hai tumko
Meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko...

Posted by: Nimii Jun 29 2006, 10:48 AM

Madhz in fact I was thinking of this Mukesh duet with Sudha M the other day when you had posted the write up tum kisi aur ko chahogi to muskil hogi..

Great writeup re bow.gif

Thanks a lot!!!!!!!

N rolleyes.gif

Posted by: oye_sonu Jun 30 2006, 09:54 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 29 2006, 12:01 AM) *

Thanks Nimz, Deewani and Sonu.

Love and social consciousness...



NDutta: Didi(1959)

Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko
Meri baat kuch aur hai,maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko...

Meri dil ki mere jazbaat ki keemat kya hai
uljhe uljhe se khayalat ki keemat kya hai
Maine kyun pyar kiya tumne na kyun pyar kia
In pareshan sawaalat ki keemat kya hai
Tum jo yeh bhi na batao to yeh haq hai tumko
meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko


Zindagi sirf mohabbat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
zulfo rukhsaar ki jannat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
Bhookh aur pyaas ki maari hui is duniya mein
Ishq hi ek haqeeqat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
Tum agar aankh churao to yeh haq hai tumko
Maine tum se hi nahi sab se mohabbat ki hai
Tum agar aankh churao to yeh haq hai tumko


Tumko duniya ke ghamo dard se fursat na sahi
Sabse ulfat sahi mujhse hi mohabbat na sahi
Main tumhari hoon yehi mere liye kya kam hai
Tum mere ho ke raho yeh meri kismat na sahi
Aur bhi dil to jalao to ye haq hai tumko
Meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko...



By god kaya gaana choose kara hai aapne. one of my favs. infact mukhda to ab life ka part ban chuka hai. aur aksar iske mukhde ko one liner ki tarah quote karta hoon.

we always have high expectations from our closed ones( or love)....and often let down by them.
but then we cant compel someone to love us.

off topic but bit related :
Acha, aisa hi ek bada pyara song hai film " kasoor"(2002) ka. (an inpired no).But I like that song a lot. Nadeem sharavan has done lot of improvisation(interludes) to the original tune.

dil mera todd diya usne bura kyon manoo. usko haq hai vo mujhe pyar kare ya na kare
uske raste mein khadi kyon koi diwaar kare. usko haq hai vo mujhe pyar kare ya na kare


I had this (didi) song but was desperate to listen......... so again dwonloaded ur uploaded song tongue1.gif

Thanks


Sonu

Posted by: pradeepasrani Jun 30 2006, 12:28 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 29 2006, 12:01 AM) *

Thanks Nimz, Deewani and Sonu.

Love and social consciousness...

Two songs(my favorites), two different positions...

In the first the girl disheartened with the world and its inequalities seeks refuge in love,
"Mujhe gale se lagalo bahut udas hoon main" what a beautiful opening line, simple, intimate and vulnerable .... Reminds me of another song sequence/image from "Phir Subah Hogi" Mala Sinha and Raj Kapoor in the title song of the movie,clinging to each other trying to rid each other of the demons of hunger and destitution... Besides the radical social criticism in the lines themselves, it is worth noting that Sahir gives the lines to the girl, not a very common instance in hindi films where the woman is talking and thinking about things other than romance and love.

The lover comforts the girl "Sitam ke haath ki talwar toot jayegi/Ye oonch neech ki dewaar toot jayegi" but the girl is still in the thrall of her disillusionment "Na jane kab ye tareeka ye taur badlega/sitam ka, gham ka, museebat ka daur badlega".


In the second, another duet, this time from Didi in the voices of Mukesh and Sudha Malhotra, what great lines the girl is given, yet again! Just listen to her ..."Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to ye haq hai tumko/Meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai...

The situation is very different, love is not a refuge anymore it is now a hinderance, the lover has to sacrifice his love for the girl for his devotion to a cause. The girl is articulating a more conventional position (expressing her total love and commitment), yet Sahir makes it radical by giving her emotional argument an equal footage with the man's social commitment. The song almost seems to reflect upon Faiz's great "Mujhse pehli si mohabbat mere mehboob na maang...aur bhi dukh hain zamane mein mohabbat ke siwa" and extends it by giving it a female voice that articulates the emotional toll such a commitment can take...

The man's sensitive perception of the hard realities around him impinging upon his romantic commitment is expressed hauntingly in:
"Bhookh aur pyas ki maari hui is duniya mein
Ishq hi ek haqueqat nahi kuch aur bhi hai"...


"Maine tumse hi nahi sabse mohabbat ki hai..."

But, then... what an argument the girl makes for the cause of love...

"Tumko duniya ke ghamo dard se fursat na sahi
Sabse ulfat sahi mujhse hi mohabbat na sahi"



Ravi: Aaj Aur Kal(1963)

Mujhe gale se lagalo bahut udaas hun main
Game jahan se chuda lo
Bahut udaas hoon main...
Mujhe gale se laga lo

Nazar mein teer se chubhte hain ab nazaaron se
Main thak gayee hoon sabhi tootate saharon se
Ab aur bojh na dalo bahut udas hoon main
Mujhe gale se laga lo

Bahut sahe ghame duniya magar udas na ho
Kareeb hai shab-e-gham ki seher udas na ho
Bahut sahe ghame duniya
Sitam ke haath ki talwar toot jayegi
Ye oonch neech ki dewaar toot jayegi
Tujhe kasam hai meri hamsafar udas na ho
Bahut sahe ghame duniya ...


Na jane kab ye tareeka ye taur badlega
Sitam ka, gham ka, museebat ka daur badlega
Mujhe jahan se utha lo
Bahut udaas hoon main....



NDutta: Didi(1959)

Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko
Meri baat kuch aur hai,maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko...

Meri dil ki mere jazbaat ki keemat kya hai
uljhe uljhe se khayalat ki keemat kya hai
Maine kyun pyar kiya tumne na kyun pyar kia
In pareshan sawaalat ki keemat kya hai
Tum jo yeh bhi na batao to yeh haq hai tumko
meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko


Zindagi sirf mohabbat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
zulfo rukhsaar ki jannat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
Bhookh aur pyaas ki maari hui is duniya mein
Ishq hi ek haqeeqat nahin kuch aur bhi hai
Tum agar aankh churao to yeh haq hai tumko
Maine tum se hi nahi sab se mohabbat ki hai
Tum agar aankh churao to yeh haq hai tumko


Tumko duniya ke ghamo dard se fursat na sahi
Sabse ulfat sahi mujhse hi mohabbat na sahi
Main tumhari hoon yehi mere liye kya kam hai
Tum mere ho ke raho yeh meri kismat na sahi
Aur bhi dil to jalao to ye haq hai tumko
Meri baat aur hai maine to mohabbat ki hai
Tum mujhe bhool bhi jao to yeh haq hai tumko...



The music for Tum Mujhe Bhool Bhi Jaao was composed by Sudha Malhotra Herself. The music for rest of the songs of Didi were composed by N. Dutta

Posted by: bawlachintu Jul 1 2006, 02:15 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 12 2006, 07:35 PM) *


Apart from Jaidev and Khaiyyam I don't think any other md used Yesudas for Amitabh, or did they? Nimz since you are playing the Yesudas tracks at the moment, you are the current expert... rolleyes.gif

Noone dared to use Yesudas' voice for two heroes except Khayyam. rolleyes.gif
'Apki mehki hui julph-Sanjeev'
'Kitabon mein chhapte hain chahat ke kisse-Amta Pachchan'

unsure.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 2 2006, 01:52 AM

Thanks Sonu. Pradeep, I had changed my song tag, but forgot to change that. Thank you for pointing it out.

Madhavi

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 2 2006, 01:55 AM

Lata,

I thought you had written out the lyrics for the song from Bahu Begum but I don't see it now. Just give me a couple of days to get back to it.


Posted by: r&d Jul 2 2006, 03:09 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 28 2006, 09:23 AM) *

QUOTE(joshi @ Jun 28 2006, 02:10 AM) *

Madhavi ji (if I may address you so),

I've just finished going through this thread. I liked all of your posts but if I may say so, I just loved the one on "meri mehboob kahin aur" (specially how you brought out the contrast with "ek shahenshah ne")...



Joshi ji

Please call me Madhavi. I love that poem too, would like to see how it is picturised though. Video wale log, any one there has the video of Ghazal? Would like to see Sunil Dutt reprimanding Meena Kumari on wanting the Taj for a locale smile.gif


Instead of video how about three pictures to convey the whole song.
Attached Image

Attached Image

Through out the song Meena Kumari is blushing. not really appropriate for the lyrics.
Attached Image

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 2 2006, 10:27 PM

Thanks Rajnish,

Great space saving tactics... biggrin.gif . One pretty much gets the idea of how the song goes. Wonder why they even bothered to use the song in the movie. Can't really imagine Sahir being very happy with how his poem would be diluted in the context of the picturisation.

Madhavi

Posted by: bawlachintu Jul 3 2006, 06:25 PM

Kal hi is gaane ko cable pe dekha. Meena Kumari looks pretty.
Dutt saheb ne bhi is gaane mein achche expression diye hain.

Posted by: Nimii Jul 3 2006, 10:17 PM

Sigh! I still wanna see the video!! R & D plzzzzzzz !!!!

QUOTE
Kal hi is gaane ko cable pe dekha. Meena Kumari looks pretty.
Dutt saheb ne bhi is gaane mein achche expression diye hain.


You are lucky .. not all of us get a chance to see such old videos on the telly tube mad.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jul 3 2006, 10:21 PM

Another of my favourite one, is this one...

Would love your comments on this.. the first line is just so beautiful.. describing how delicate the King S finds the feet of his beloved wub.gif

ra: paaNv chhoo lene do phooloN ko inaayat hogi, inaayat hogi
varnaa hamko nahin, inko bhi shikaayat hogi
shikaayat hogi

la: aap jo phool bichhaayen unhen ham Thukraayen - 2
hamko Dar hai
hamko Dar hai ke ye tauheen-e-muhabbat hogi, muhabbat hogi

ra: dil ki bechain umangoN pe karam farmaao - 2
itnaa ruk ruk
itnaa ruk ruk ke chaloge to qayaamat hogi, qayaamat hogi
paaNv chhoo lene do phooloN ko inaayat hogi, inaayat hogi

la: sharm roke hai idhar, shauq udhar khinche hai - 2
kyaa Khabar thi
kyaa Khabar thi kabhi is dil ki ye haalat hogi
ye haalat hogi

ra: sharm gairoN se huaa karti hai apnoN se nahin - 2
sharm ham se
sharm ham se bhi karoge to museebat hogi, museebat hogi
paaNv chhoo lene do phooloN ko inaayat hogi, inaayat hogi
la: hamko Dar hai ke ye tauheen-e-muhabbat hogi, muhabbat hogi

wub.gif
ps: reminds me the scene of Pakeezah too where Jaani Rajkumar sees Meena Kumari's feet and describes it.. blushf.gif

Posted by: bawlachintu Jul 4 2006, 10:16 AM

Har antara apne aap mein ek dastaan hai.





Posted by: Nimii Jul 4 2006, 12:04 PM

Now what does dastaan mean confused.gif

My hindi teacher also has vanished mad.gif Growl!

Posted by: Nimii Jul 4 2006, 07:46 PM

Tji got ur sms - dastaan - story ohmy.gif

Thank you!!!!!!!!!! rolleyes.gif

Posted by: visuja Jul 5 2006, 05:08 PM

Madhavi-ji,

Wonderful write ups. Always a pleasure to read Sahir's poetry and its interpretations. And your way with words and grasp of urdu is commendable too smile1.gif

Chanced upon this thread only today. My loss wunly sad.gif Looking fwd to many more commentaries from you .....
How about one for the classic - Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par - Taj Mahal

Khuda-e-Bartar - Lata - Taj Mahal - Roshan - Sahir

Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai
Har Ek Fateh-o-Zafar Ke Daaman Pe Khoon-e-Insaan Ka Rang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai...

Zamiin Bhi Teri, Hain Hum Bhi Tere, Ye Milkiyat Ka Sawaal Kya Hai
Ye Qatl-o-Khoon Ka Rivaaz Kyun Hai, Ye Rasm-e-Jang-o-Jadaal Kya Hai
Jinhein Talab Hai Jahaan Bhar Ki, Unhiin Ka Dil Itna Tang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

Gareeb Maaon Shareef Behnon Ko Amn-o-Izzat Ki Zindagi De
Jinhein Ataa Kii Hai Tu Ne Taaqat, Unhein Hidaayat Ki Roshni De
Saron Mein Kibr-o-Ghuroor Kyun hai, Dilon Ke Sheeshe Pe Zang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

Khazaa Ke Raste Pe Jaanewaalon Ko Bachke Aane Ki Raah Dena
Dilon Ke Gulshan Ujad Na Jaaye, Mohabbaton Ko Panaah Dena
Jahaan Mein Jashn-e-Wafaa Ke Badle, Ye Jashn-e-Teer-o-Tafang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 5 2006, 06:31 PM

Whoa...got to get my Urdu to Hindi dictionary for this one. Visuja thank you for your interest, give me a couple of days will get back to you. Still suffering from the 4th of July holiday hangover... biggrin.gif Nimz sorry about taking so long about your song...

Doing the flowers a favor...Seems Sahir is in a more forgiving mood about the Shahenshah in this one. The emperor as the lover is given some classic lines... "Sharm gairon se hua karti hai apno se nahin...Sharm apno se karogi to museebat hogi"... Beautifully sung by Lata and Rafi. It is always a pleasure to hear LM's near perfect enunciation of Urdu.

Yes Nimz...Jaani had the charisma to pull off the lover's excesses grandly...Pradeep Kumar looked a trifle uncomfortable but Bina Rai jumped quite nimbly amid the flowers I remember. I also remember admiring her dainty feet in the pretty sandals in the song... Anyone remembers Meena Kumari's feet in Pakeezah?... ninja.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jul 5 2006, 07:00 PM

QUOTE
Anyone remembers Meena Kumari's feet in Pakeezah?.


Definitely not me laugh.gif Tho' a classic I didnt like Pakeezah doh.gif I juz remembered this scene about Jaani describing her feet (shhhhhhh blab.gif dont know how delicate or non-delicate they were laugh.gif )

Madhz no hurry in posting your reply. It is a pleasure to come to this thread to read your writeups.. Waiting is hardly a hurdle!!!!!!!!!

N smile1.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jul 5 2006, 10:19 PM

Madhz how about this one?/

Asha and Rafi sahab number.. (from Aaj aur kal) - who was it featured on ?!?!?!?!

Mujhe gale se lagaa lo, bahut udaas hoon main... (lovely number portraying the need for support and comfort from each other)

N rolleyes.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 5 2006, 10:52 PM

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 5 2006, 11:49 AM) *

Madhz how about this one?/

Asha and Rafi sahab number.. (from Aaj aur kal) - who was it featured on ?!?!?!?!

Mujhe gale se lagaa lo, bahut udaas hoon main... (lovely number portraying the need for support and comfort from each other)

N rolleyes.gif



Nimz

bow.gif

I am all hearts and violins about that very song. wub.gif Did it already with the Didi number... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jul 5 2006, 11:18 PM

headbang.gif How did I miss it mad.gif spank.gif -ing myself angry2.gif

It was there right in the beginning of the post - http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=24011&view=findpost&p=269050

Grrrrrrrrrrrr I guess I was so taken up by tum mujhe bhool bhi jaao.. to yeh haq hai tumko sigh.gif That song dismissed everything else from my head cry.gif

Now I need to bother Madhz with another one tongue1.gif

N biggrin.gif

Posted by: Talaikya Jul 6 2006, 12:03 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 1 2006, 04:25 PM) *

Lata,

I thought you had written out the lyrics for the song from Bahu Begum but I don't see it now. Just give me a couple of days to get back to it.


On Lata's behalf...

Duniya kare sawaal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

Pooche koi ke dil ko kahaan chhod aaye hain
Kis kis se apna rishta e jaan tod aaye hai
Mushkil ho arz e haal...
Mushkil ho arz e haal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

Poochhe koi ke dard e wafa kaun de gaya
Raaton ko jaag ne ki sazaa kaun de gaya
Kah ne se ho malaal...
Kah ne se ho malaal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 3 2006, 12:47 PM) *

Sigh! I still wanna see the video!! R & D plzzzzzzz !!!!


Me too me too!! ... and not compressed sad1.gif

QUOTE(visuja @ Jul 5 2006, 07:38 AM) *

Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par - Taj Mahal


Awesome, I am waiting too Attached Image
QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 5 2006, 09:30 AM) *

Tho' a classic I didnt like Pakeezah doh.gif


Me either. All the trouble they went through till completing it - shows sad1.gif

QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 5 2006, 01:48 PM) *

headbang.gif How did I miss it mad.gif spank.gif -ing myself angry2.gif

biggrin.gif I won't say another word tongue1.gif

QUOTE
Now I need to bother Madhz with another one tongue1.gif
N biggrin.gif


Kripaya intezaar karein, aap katar mein hain!! tongue1.gif tongue1.gif

Posted by: Nimii Jul 6 2006, 12:13 AM

QUOTE
biggrin.gif I won't say another word tongue1.gif

shhhhhhhhh blab.gif dont let "me" out of the bag

QUOTE
aap katar mein hain!! tongue1.gif

Katar mein hai?? No no I aint living in any gulf country laugh.gif

Grrrrrrrrrrrr what in the god's name does that mean?? Waiting in the queue??

Ok no more spamming back to work mad.gif

N biggrin.gif

Posted by: Lata Jul 6 2006, 11:36 PM

QUOTE(Talaikya @ Jul 6 2006, 12:03 AM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 1 2006, 04:25 PM) *

Lata,

I thought you had written out the lyrics for the song from Bahu Begum but I don't see it now. Just give me a couple of days to get back to it.


On Lata's behalf...

Duniya kare sawaal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

Pooche koi ke dil ko kahaan chhod aaye hain
Kis kis se apna rishta e jaan tod aaye hai
Mushkil ho arz e haal...
Mushkil ho arz e haal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

Poochhe koi ke dard e wafa kaun de gaya
Raaton ko jaag ne ki sazaa kaun de gaya
Kah ne se ho malaal...
Kah ne se ho malaal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

[


Thanks Tji love.gif .....Madhavi take ur time smile1.gif...Me waiting patiently smile.gif

Posted by: r&d Jul 7 2006, 08:14 AM

QUOTE(Talaikya @ Jul 5 2006, 10:33 AM) *


QUOTE(Nimii @ Jul 3 2006, 12:47 PM) *

Sigh! I still wanna see the video!! R & D plzzzzzzz !!!!


Me too me too!! ... and not compressed sad1.gif



Talaikya ji,

The VOB (DVD container file) file is 194 MB. I can upload it but HF might crash or
use third party file sharing site. Let me know if that is what you want.

Posted by: Nimii Jul 7 2006, 08:44 AM

R & D Rip rip kijiye to wmv or avi or real media file ohmy.gif

N doh.gif

Posted by: Anupama Jul 7 2006, 09:07 AM

Wow! Excellent work, Madhvi. Very impressive and extremely informative! How did I miss this thread? doh.gif Finally, someone has taken the initiative to indite about my neglected Sahir Ludhianvi. What a great poet, he was! I am fortunate and blessed to have hailed from Punjab. I was born in Ludhiana and went to the same government college where Sahir studied and walked on the same portals as Sahir Ludhianvi did.

I have always been fascinated by Sahir's poetry. He has influenced me to great extents.

Sahir has penned over 700 filmy songs. I already have more than 400 of Sahir's songs and wish to someday acquire all his songs. Who can forget his first recorded song - "Mohabbat Tark Ki Maine" - sung in Talat Mehmood's silken voice, and his first released song "Thandi Hawayein" sung by Lata. Each and every Sahir's song is close to my heart.My favorite soaked in liquor song of Sahir is "Mehfil Se Uth Jaane Waalon". Madhvi, I would appreciate it if you could comment on this song ( take your time , I know I am last in queue). cry.gif You might be aware that this song was written for Amrita Pritam and Imroz.

Amrita Pritam wrote in her autobiography - Raseedi Ticket :-

"I recall - many years ago when Sahir had come to Delhi, he invited and Imroz to the hotel where he was staying. We were there for a couple of hours. Sahir had placed an order for whisky and there were three glasses on the table. We returned deep into the night.And when it was almost midnight - Sahir called me up saying : " There are still three glasses lying on the table, and by turn I am sipping from each of them, and writing '' These Empty Goblets Are My Companions." ( Mere Saathi Khaali Jaam )

Then she writes - Only nature is likely to know that there was some thread, who knows related to which birth, which even in this birth was wrapped around the three of us.In 1990 when Jalandhar Doordarshan shot a film on my life they asked me to reflect on my relationship with both Sahir Ludhianvi and Imroz - At that point , I had said - "There is only one sole relationship of pain - of agony - of the hiccup of separation - of musical resonance of the pipe which can be heard despite those hiccups of longing.This was the relationship with Sahir - this is the relationship with Imroz.. This was Sahir's love when I wrote : -

Tumhe Phir Yaad Kiya Hai
Hum Ne Phir Aag Ko Chooma
Ishq Chahe Ek Zehar Ka Pyala Sahi
Maine Ek Ghoont Peena Chaha__Amrita Pritam


Not only Sahir's filmy songs but also his other work captivates and fascinates me. The intensity in his poetry deeply moves me and leaves me enthralled. I possess both of his books - Talkhiyaan and Aao Koi Khwab Bune. I am yet to acquire another book of his - Gaata Jaaye Banjara (suggested by a friend of mine). Sahir's poetry does not only focus on love and romance, but also captures other aspects of life. The bleak realities of life are exposed. In his poetry, Sahir reveals pain and suffering, his respect for women, his great understanding and acceptance of various religions, and his desire to find harmony and tranquility in life. His poetry reveal both his positive outlook and his rebellious and cynical spirit towards life. He arrived at a philosophy of his own.

I wish he could have lived for many more years. He left behind many of admirers like us.

Thanks Madhvi. bow.gif clap1.gif What a treat!

Nafrat Jo Sikhaye Woh Dharam Tera Nahin Hai
Insaan Ko Raunde Woh Qadam Tera Nahin Hai
Quraan Na Ho Jis Mein Woh Mandir Nahin Tera
Geeta Na Ho Jis Mein Woh Haram Tera Nahin Hai
Tu Aman Aur Sulah Ka Armaan Banega
Insaan Ki Aulad Hai, Insaan Bangea - Sahir Ludhianvi

Posted by: Nimii Jul 7 2006, 09:14 AM

Anu ohmy.gif shocked.gif YOU AMAZE ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

n bow.gif

Posted by: pradeepasrani Jul 7 2006, 02:36 PM

Its indeed thrilling to see a very informed discussion and analysis of some of the finest Urdu lyrics written in the annals of Hindi Film Industry, by Shair-e-Azam Sahir Ludhianvi. Unfortunately a hectic work schedule doesn't permit me to contribute as frequently as some of you are doing but I am indeed grategul for this enriching experience.

I would like to reiterate what I wrote about a year back in the same thread but under a different title, Sahir - A Great Lyricist

"Given the all pervading crass commercialism in our society leading to younger minds running after professions which would fetch millions in salaries or profits and completely ignoring the study of languages, it is highly unlikely that 21 century will ever see the emergence of young poets in any language, leave alone the geniuses of the caliber of Sahir. So let's be thankful that we lived in an age in which Sahir bestowed upon us the finest Urdu ghazals and nazms, many of which became even more memorable as they were set to music and sung by legendary music directors and singers of our times."

Pradeep

Posted by: Nimii Jul 7 2006, 04:01 PM

Pradeep ji do keep posting whenever you do find time..

This is one of my fav threads.. clap2.gif Love to read more info rich posts from well-knowledged ppl like Madhz and you.

N rolleyes.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 7 2006, 11:52 PM

QUOTE(Anupama @ Jul 6 2006, 10:37 PM) *

Wow! Excellent work, Madhvi. Very impressive and extremely informative! How did I miss this thread? doh.gif Finally, someone has taken the initiative to indite about my neglected Sahir Ludhianvi. What a great poet, he was! I am fortunate and blessed to have hailed from Punjab. I was born in Ludhiana and went to the same government college where Sahir studied and walked on the same portals as Sahir Ludhianvi did.

I have always been fascinated by Sahir's poetry. He has influenced me to great extents.

Sahir has penned over 700 filmy songs. I already have more than 400 of Sahir's songs and wish to someday acquire all his songs. Who can forget his first recorded song - "Mohabbat Tark Ki Maine" - sung in Talat Mehmood's silken voice, and his first released song "Thandi Hawayein" sung by Lata. Each and every Sahir's song is close to my heart.My favorite soaked in liquor song of Sahir is "Mehfil Se Uth Jaane Waalon". Madhvi, I would appreciate it if you could comment on this song ( take your time , I know I am last in queue). cry.gif You might be aware that this song was written for Amrita Pritam and Imroz.

Amrita Pritam wrote in her autobiography - Raseedi Ticket :-

"I recall - many years ago when Sahir had come to Delhi, he invited and Imroz to the hotel where he was staying. We were there for a couple of hours. Sahir had placed an order for whisky and there were three glasses on the table. We returned deep into the night.And when it was almost midnight - Sahir called me up saying : " There are still three glasses lying on the table, and by turn I am sipping from each of them, and writing '' These Empty Goblets Are My Companions." ( Mere Saathi Khaali Jaam )

Then she writes - Only nature is likely to know that there was some thread, who knows related to which birth, which even in this birth was wrapped around the three of us.In 1990 when Jalandhar Doordarshan shot a film on my life they asked me to reflect on my relationship with both Sahir Ludhianvi and Imroz - At that point , I had said - "There is only one sole relationship of pain - of agony - of the hiccup of separation - of musical resonance of the pipe which can be heard despite those hiccups of longing.This was the relationship with Sahir - this is the relationship with Imroz.. This was Sahir's love when I wrote : -

Tumhe Phir Yaad Kiya Hai
Hum Ne Phir Aag Ko Chooma
Ishq Chahe Ek Zehar Ka Pyala Sahi
Maine Ek Ghoont Peena Chaha__Amrita Pritam


Not only Sahir's filmy songs but also his other work captivates and fascinates me. The intensity in his poetry deeply moves me and leaves me enthralled. I possess both of his books - Talkhiyaan and Aao Koi Khwab Bune. I am yet to acquire another book of his - Gaata Jaaye Banjara (suggested by a friend of mine). Sahir's poetry does not only focus on love and romance, but also captures other aspects of life. The bleak realities of life are exposed. In his poetry, Sahir reveals pain and suffering, his respect for women, his great understanding and acceptance of various religions, and his desire to find harmony and tranquility in life. His poetry reveal both his positive outlook and his rebellious and cynical spirit towards life. He arrived at a philosophy of his own.

I wish he could have lived for many more years. He left behind many of admirers like us.

Thanks Madhvi. bow.gif clap1.gif What a treat!

Nafrat Jo Sikhaye Woh Dharam Tera Nahin Hai
Insaan Ko Raunde Woh Qadam Tera Nahin Hai
Quraan Na Ho Jis Mein Woh Mandir Nahin Tera
Geeta Na Ho Jis Mein Woh Haram Tera Nahin Hai
Tu Aman Aur Sulah Ka Armaan Banega
Insaan Ki Aulad Hai, Insaan Bangea - Sahir Ludhianvi


What a superb, impassioned write-up Anupama clap1.gif clap1.gif That is exactly the way I feel when I read Sahir, engaged. He engages me with his varied insights, his empathy, and the amazing simplicity with which he can state the most complicated of observations. Would love to hear your insights into his poetry , which songs that you want to wax eloquent about. smile.gif I restricted myself mainly to songs that were not often discussed vis-a-vis Sahir, as they were very much part of the mainstream cinema of that time and not particularly radical in their orientation and I wanted people to notice that even ordinary, situational songs were transformed when Sahir penned them down.

Please do give us some more write-ups on songs that you want to write about... or add on your comments to the songs already discussed. Would love to read about them...

Madhavi

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 8 2006, 12:01 AM

QUOTE(pradeepasrani @ Jul 7 2006, 04:06 AM) *

Its indeed thrilling to see a very informed discussion and analysis of some of the finest Urdu lyrics written in the annals of Hindi Film Industry, by Shair-e-Azam Sahir Ludhianvi. Unfortunately a hectic work schedule doesn't permit me to contribute as frequently as some of you are doing but I am indeed grategul for this enriching experience.

I would like to reiterate what I wrote about a year back in the same thread but under a different title, Sahir - A Great Lyricist

"Given the all pervading crass commercialism in our society leading to younger minds running after professions which would fetch millions in salaries or profits and completely ignoring the study of languages, it is highly unlikely that 21 century will ever see the emergence of young poets in any language, leave alone the geniuses of the caliber of Sahir. So let's be thankful that we lived in an age in which Sahir bestowed upon us the finest Urdu ghazals and nazms, many of which became even more memorable as they were set to music and sung by legendary music directors and singers of our times."

Pradeep



Pradeep thank you for the wonderfully expressed paragraph about Sahir. Whenever you have the time, please do share your comments on Sahir, it would be much appreciated by all us Sahir fans.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 8 2006, 12:11 AM

QUOTE(Lata @ Jul 6 2006, 01:06 PM) *

QUOTE(Talaikya @ Jul 6 2006, 12:03 AM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 1 2006, 04:25 PM) *

Lata,

I thought you had written out the lyrics for the song from Bahu Begum but I don't see it now. Just give me a couple of days to get back to it.


On Lata's behalf...

Duniya kare sawaal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

Pooche koi ke dil ko kahaan chhod aaye hain
Kis kis se apna rishta e jaan tod aaye hai
Mushkil ho arz e haal...
Mushkil ho arz e haal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)


Poochhe koi ke dard e wafa kaun de gaya
Raaton ko jaag ne ki sazaa kaun de gaya
Kah ne se ho malaal...
Kah ne se ho malaal to hum kya jawab de
Tum ko na ho khayal to hum kya jawab de (Duniya...)

[


Thanks Tji love.gif .....Madhavi take ur time smile1.gif...Me waiting patiently smile.gif


Thanks Tji for the lyrics and Lata for your interest...


Khayaal...it is such a layered word in urdu.
Khayaal: thought
Khayaal rahe: to keep in mind
Khayaal rakhna: to take care
khayaal karo: to consider
I am sure there are many more nuances that I have not touched upon...

"Duniya Kare sawaal to ham kya jawab de/tum ko na ho khayaal to ham kya jawab de" ...The sense of being forsaken and defeated is so poignantly conveyed in these two lines.

"Kis kis se apna rishta e jaan tod aaye hain"...the isolation the woman feels is from both sides, on the one hand she has alienated herself from the rest of the world and on the other hand she has been forsaken by her lover.

Had to check on the word "malaal" which again has more than one tone, it means sadness, grief and also langour,fatigue. Someone who is familiar with Urdu can perhaps give us some more insights but at that moment when I read the meaning of the word it fitted the song so well, not just the sadness the woman feels but also the loneliness and sense of defeat that she expresses when she says "tumko na ho khayaal"... that is what isolates her the most, which finally makes it impossible for her to answer any questions...

A beautiful moody song, it rises above the garish sets of the movie. An ageing,overblown and heavily made up Meena Kumari however still manages to give it the right touch of sadness and fatigue... the sense of being unable to answer all those questions. Never found Meena Kumari conventionally attractive but she had such an interesting face, it had a hint of decadence, a knowlegde of tragedy and incredible empathy all of which was captured by Guru Dutt in the role tailor-made for her, as Chhoti Bahu in Sahib Biwi aur Ghulam.

Posted by: Anupama Jul 8 2006, 08:10 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 7 2006, 02:22 PM) *

QUOTE(Anupama @ Jul 6 2006, 10:37 PM) *

Wow! Excellent work, Madhvi. Very impressive and extremely informative! How did I miss this thread? doh.gif Finally, someone has taken the initiative to indite about my neglected Sahir Ludhianvi. What a great poet, he was! I am fortunate and blessed to have hailed from Punjab. I was born in Ludhiana and went to the same government college where Sahir studied and walked on the same portals as Sahir Ludhianvi did.

I have always been fascinated by Sahir's poetry. He has influenced me to great extents.

Sahir has penned over 700 filmy songs. I already have more than 400 of Sahir's songs and wish to someday acquire all his songs. Who can forget his first recorded song - "Mohabbat Tark Ki Maine" - sung in Talat Mehmood's silken voice, and his first released song "Thandi Hawayein" sung by Lata. Each and every Sahir's song is close to my heart.My favorite soaked in liquor song of Sahir is "Mehfil Se Uth Jaane Waalon". Madhvi, I would appreciate it if you could comment on this song ( take your time , I know I am last in queue). cry.gif You might be aware that this song was written for Amrita Pritam and Imroz.

Amrita Pritam wrote in her autobiography - Raseedi Ticket :-

"I recall - many years ago when Sahir had come to Delhi, he invited and Imroz to the hotel where he was staying. We were there for a couple of hours. Sahir had placed an order for whisky and there were three glasses on the table. We returned deep into the night.And when it was almost midnight - Sahir called me up saying : " There are still three glasses lying on the table, and by turn I am sipping from each of them, and writing '' These Empty Goblets Are My Companions." ( Mere Saathi Khaali Jaam )

Then she writes - Only nature is likely to know that there was some thread, who knows related to which birth, which even in this birth was wrapped around the three of us.In 1990 when Jalandhar Doordarshan shot a film on my life they asked me to reflect on my relationship with both Sahir Ludhianvi and Imroz - At that point , I had said - "There is only one sole relationship of pain - of agony - of the hiccup of separation - of musical resonance of the pipe which can be heard despite those hiccups of longing.This was the relationship with Sahir - this is the relationship with Imroz.. This was Sahir's love when I wrote : -

Tumhe Phir Yaad Kiya Hai
Hum Ne Phir Aag Ko Chooma
Ishq Chahe Ek Zehar Ka Pyala Sahi
Maine Ek Ghoont Peena Chaha__Amrita Pritam


Not only Sahir's filmy songs but also his other work captivates and fascinates me. The intensity in his poetry deeply moves me and leaves me enthralled. I possess both of his books - Talkhiyaan and Aao Koi Khwab Bune. I am yet to acquire another book of his - Gaata Jaaye Banjara (suggested by a friend of mine). Sahir's poetry does not only focus on love and romance, but also captures other aspects of life. The bleak realities of life are exposed. In his poetry, Sahir reveals pain and suffering, his respect for women, his great understanding and acceptance of various religions, and his desire to find harmony and tranquility in life. His poetry reveal both his positive outlook and his rebellious and cynical spirit towards life. He arrived at a philosophy of his own.

I wish he could have lived for many more years. He left behind many of admirers like us.

Thanks Madhvi. bow.gif clap1.gif What a treat!

Nafrat Jo Sikhaye Woh Dharam Tera Nahin Hai
Insaan Ko Raunde Woh Qadam Tera Nahin Hai
Quraan Na Ho Jis Mein Woh Mandir Nahin Tera
Geeta Na Ho Jis Mein Woh Haram Tera Nahin Hai
Tu Aman Aur Sulah Ka Armaan Banega
Insaan Ki Aulad Hai, Insaan Bangea - Sahir Ludhianvi


What a superb, impassioned write-up Anupama clap1.gif clap1.gif That is exactly the way I feel when I read Sahir, engaged. He engages me with his varied insights, his empathy, and the amazing simplicity with which he can state the most complicated of observations. Would love to hear your insights into his poetry , which songs that you want to wax eloquent about. smile.gif I restricted myself mainly to songs that were not often discussed vis-a-vis Sahir, as they were very much part of the mainstream cinema of that time and not particularly radical in their orientation and I wanted people to notice that even ordinary, situational songs were transformed when Sahir penned them down.

Please do give us some more write-ups on songs that you want to write about... or add on your comments to the songs already discussed. Would love to read about them...

Madhavi

Thanks Madhavi, I will surely contribute to this thread in whatever manner I can and with whatever little knowledge I have (whenever time permits.) Please keep up the good work. It's always a pleasure to read your posts. smile1.gif

Posted by: Lata Jul 9 2006, 02:58 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 8 2006, 12:11 AM) *



Thanks Tji for the lyrics and Lata for your interest...


Khayaal...it is such a layered word in urdu.
Khayaal: thought
Khayaal rahe: to keep in mind
Khayaal rakhna: to take care
khayaal karo: to consider
I am sure there are many more nuances that I have not touched upon...

"Duniya Kare sawaal to ham kya jawab de/tum ko na ho khayaal to ham kya jawab de" ...The sense of being forsaken and defeated is so poignantly conveyed in these two lines.

"Kis kis se apna rishta e jaan tod aaye hain"...the isolation the woman feels is from both sides, on the one hand she has alienated herself from the rest of the world and on the other hand she has been forsaken by her lover.

Had to check on the word "malaal" which again has more than one tone, it means sadness, grief and also langour,fatigue. Someone who is familiar with Urdu can perhaps give us some more insights but at that moment when I read the meaning of the word it fitted the song so well, not just the sadness the woman feels but also the loneliness and sense of defeat that she expresses when she says "tumko na ho khayaal"... that is what isolates her the most, which finally makes it impossible for her to answer any questions...

A beautiful moody song, it rises above the garish sets of the movie. An ageing,overblown and heavily made up Meena Kumari however still manages to give it the right touch of sadness and fatigue... the sense of being unable to answer all those questions. Never found Meena Kumari conventionally attractive but she had such an interesting face, it had a hint of decadence, a knowlegde of tragedy and incredible empathy all of which was captured by Guru Dutt in the role tailor-made for her, as Chhoti Bahu in Sahib Biwi aur Ghulam.


Madhavi, Thank you for the write up. smile1.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 26 2006, 06:09 AM

Had this one saved...

QUOTE(visuja @ Jul 5 2006, 06:38 AM) *


Khuda-e-Bartar - Lata - Taj Mahal - Roshan - Sahir

Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai
Har Ek Fateh-o-Zafar Ke Daaman Pe Khoon-e-Insaan Ka Rang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai...

bartar = surpassing ; fatah = conquest by means of jihad ;
zafar = Conquest, Gain, Triumph, Victory


Zamiin Bhi Teri, Hain Hum Bhi Tere, Ye Milkiyat Ka Sawaal Kya Hai
Ye Qatl-o-Khoon Ka Rivaaz Kyun Hai, Ye Rasm-e-Jang-o-Jadaal Kya Hai
Jinhein Talab Hai Jahaan Bhar Ki, Unhiin Ka Dil Itna Tang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

milkiyat = Keeping/possession/property ; jadaal = list
talab = quest/Pursuit/demand/search ; tang = Limited


Gareeb Maaon Shareef Behnon Ko Amn-o-Izzat Ki Zindagi De
Jinhein Ataa Kii Hai Tu Ne Taaqat, Unhein Hidaayat Ki Roshni De
Saron Mein Kibr-o-Ghuroor Kyun hai, Dilon Ke Sheeshe Pe Zang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

amn = peace ; ataa = gift ; hidaayat = Guidance/Instruction/Righteousness
kibr = arrogance/grandness


Khazaa Ke Raste Pe Jaanewaalon Ko Bachke Aane Ki Raah Dena
Dilon Ke Gulshan Ujad Na Jaaye, Mohabbaton Ko Panaah Dena
Jahaan Mein Jashn-e-Wafaa Ke Badle, Ye Jashn-e-Teer-o-Tafang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

kazaa = death; panaah = protection/shelter
jashn = party/celebration ; tafang = musket





Came across a discussion on this song at HF some time ago while googling...The meanings in bold interspersed in the body of the poem are all from posts on that discussion.

An anti war song that transcends time to be tragically relevant even today. It is imbued with Sahir's secular and humanistic consciousness and has resonating lines such as: "Har ek Fateh-o-Zafar ke daman pe khoone-e-insaan ka rang kyun hai". Why is it that (the lap of) every religious war/victory is stained with humar blood?

The use of the word "daaman"(lap/suggesting shelter/protection) highlights a sense of betrayal (the "lap" of religious wars not providing succor and protection but brutal murders), that tends to get lost in the translation.

"Zamin bhi teri,hain hum bhi tere/Ye milkiyat ka sawal kyun hai" This is not the iconclastic Sahir of "Aasman pe hai khuda aur zamin pe hum/Aaj kal wo is taraf dekhta hai kam". Here he positions himself within the religious consciousness and argues that if as believers we believe that the world is yours and we are yours then how does the issue of possession/ownership and wresting of property come in?

"Jinhen talab hai jahan bhar ki/Unhi ka dil itna tang kyun hai" (Those who are worried about the whole world...this is radical Sahir again bitterly hitting out against religious leaders, actually all demagogues...)

From the larger issues, Sahir comes down to individual traits that fan these larger issues..."Saron me kibr-o-ghuroor kyun hai" "Dilon ke sheeshe pe zang kyun hai" These are situations and charateristics that one faces in everyday, ordinary life that escalate into bloodshed and violence... "Jahan mein jashn-e-wafa ke badle ye jashn-e-teer-o-tafang kyun hai"...

It is a dark poem exposing the futility of war and the human expense at which such wars are fought and is posited as a series of protests to the Almighty in the form of rhetorical questions. However, interspersed in the protests are also some requests by the poet to the almighty...

Gareeb Maaon Shareef Behnon Ko Amn-o-Izzat Ki Zindagi De
Jinhein Ataa Kii Hai Tu Ne Taaqat, Unhein Hidaayat Ki Roshni De


Khazaa Ke Raste Pe Jaanewaalon Ko Bachke Aane Ki Raah Dena
Dilon Ke Gulshan Ujad Na Jaaye, Mohabbaton Ko Panaah Dena


The poet has not given up all hope, he requests for peace, he asks that those who have power use is correctly, he wants those who face death to be able to come back safely... "Mohabbaton ko panaah dena"...beautiful lines, even though he reverts back to the darker questioning by the end of the poem. The poem precariously hangs between despair and hope...

Posted by: visuja Jul 26 2006, 07:19 AM

Thanks once again smile.gif

Do save your analysis on the various songs...... They're quite insightful...
....and once never knows ... angry.gif sad.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 26 2006, 10:26 PM

Thanks Vivek, and please call me Madhavi. Ji gives me some "ji"tters biggrin.gif

Setting the scene for romance... Weather and the ambience permitting, the lovers gear up to admit to the great emotion...

Jaal:1952:SDB
Ye raat ye chandni phir kahan
Sun ja dil ki dastaan..


Joru Ka Bhai:1955:Jaidev
Surmai raat hai sitare hain...aaj dono jahan hamare hain
Subah ka intezaar kaun kare
Phir ye rut ye sama mile na mile
Aarzoo ka chaman khile na khile
Waqt ka aetbaar kaun kare..


House No.44 : 1955:SDB
Chup hai dharti chup hain chand sitare
Mere dil ki dhadkan tujhko pukare



Vaasna:1968:Chitragupt
Ye parbaton ke daere ye shaam ka dhuaan
Aise mein kyun na ched de dilon ki dastaan...


Girlfriend:1960:HK
Kashti ka khamosh safar hai shaam bhi hai tanhai bhi
Door kinare par bajti hain lehron ki shehnai bhi
Aaj mujhe kuch kehna hai


Love this Kishore gem from the sixties. Interesting song, the lover sets the scene for the song, and the girl is impatient to hear him confess to his love, and yet by the end of the song, he has not said the "kuch" that he sets out to say at the beginning. A teaser of a confession, he manages to get the girl to admit to the emotion, gets a commitment for the relationship and then... "Chodo ab kya kehna hai" ... Smart man... wink.gif Sahir playing with words again, setting the scene and then undermining it, suggesting that commitment does not really need verbal expression...

Do add on more "ambience" songs to this list... smile.gif

Am uploading two of the above songs from Girlfriend and Joru ka Bhai.

Posted by: unni Jul 26 2006, 10:39 PM

Madhavi:

Members like you and Nasir-bhai bring a new dimension to this forum. clap1.gif

Sincerely appreciated. Heartfelt thanks! bow.gif


Posted by: nasir Jul 26 2006, 10:54 PM

HAM AAPKI MEHFIL ME.N
BHOOLE SE CHALE AAYE,
HO MUAAF KHATA APNI
.....KE AB TAK NAHI.N AAYE.

smile.gif Brilliant, topic this.
Madhviji....I never realised we had such analysis going on here.
This will surely become my favourite haunt for I hope to learn a lot here.

NASIR.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 27 2006, 01:24 PM

Unni and Nasir Ji

Thank you for your warm appreciation. smile.gif

By the way Nasir Ji, as I keep saying no Madhavi ji, only Madhavi. I checked on the two great threads that you have started on Mohd. Rafi Sahab, after reading Unni's comment. My loss that it was the first time I had visited those threads. Anyway, der aaye par durust aaye. Will keep tabs on both of 'em now. I enjoyed all the incidental details that you had included about the movies along with the translations. And how wonderful to have actually met Sahir. We definitely look forward to having some insights from you.

Just realised that a longish post by Anupama is lost, I hope she has saved it... sad.gif

BC, if you have that long comment about Sahir's verse that you had posted in response to the Bahu Begum song, please post it again. I was planning to translate it as you had requested.

Posted by: ashgupta3 Jul 27 2006, 09:13 PM

Madhavi ji bow.gif bow.gif I have been watching this thread for a while now, and didnt mean to give u jitters tongue1.gif but that "ji" is added as a mark of respect for starting this thread and for ur admiration & wonderful description of Sahir's songs smile1.gif


QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 26 2006, 10:26 PM) *

Do add on more "ambience" songs to this list... smile.gif


Here r some more

Naujawaan, SDB
Thandi hawayen lehra ke gaayen
rut hai jawaan unko yahan kaise bulaayen

House #44, SDB
Faili huyi hain sapno ki baahen
aaja chal dein kahin door
wahi meri manzil wahi teri raahen
aaja chal dein kahin door

Mujhe Jeene Do, Jaidev
Raat bhi hai kuch bheegi bheegi
chaand bhi hai kuch maddham maddham
tum aao to aankhen khole
soyi huyi payal ki cham cham

Aaj aur kal, Ravi
Yeh waadiyaan yeh fizaayen bula rahin hain tumhe
khamoshiyon ki sadayen bula rahin hain tumhe

Shagun, Khayyam
Parbaton ke pedon par shaam ka basera hai
surmayi ujala hai champai andhera hai

Kaajal, Ravi
Aaj ki raat nahi sikve shikayat ke liye
aaj ki raat muraadon ki baraat aayi

Aadmi Aur Insaan, Ravi
O neele parbaton ki dhara aayi dhoondne kinara, badi door se
sabko sahara chaahiye
koi hamara chaahiye

ps: it seems like eternity since this thread is stuck on page 6

Posted by: bawlachintu Jul 27 2006, 09:19 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 27 2006, 01:24 PM) *

Unni and Nasir Ji

Thank you for your warm appreciation. smile.gif

By the way Nasir Ji, as I keep saying no Madhavi ji, only Madhavi. I checked on the two great threads that you have started on Mohd. Rafi Sahab, after reading Unni's comment. My loss that it was the first time I had visited those threads. Anyway, der aaye par durust aaye. Will keep tabs on both of 'em now. I enjoyed all the incidental details that you had included about the movies along with the translations. And how wonderful to have actually met Sahir. We definitely look forward to having some insights from you.

Just realised that a longish post by Anupama is lost, I hope she had saved it... sad.gif

BC, if you have that long comment about Sahir's verse that you had posted in response to the Bahu Begum song, please post it again. I was planning to translate it as you had requested.

I will definitely try to recollect the thought. Wakai ek khoobsoorat khayal tha jo hawa ke jhonke ki tarah dimag mein aaya. Usi din maine "Kagaz te canvas" padi thi. Except writing
for blogs I never made backup of anything. Sad!

Posted by: cinemaniac2 Jul 27 2006, 09:49 PM

super thread Madhavi clap1.gif clap2.gif

excellent job-

HF-has wonders in all corners-kudos to Pradeep

Sahir sahab is one of my favourite

I am glad u have not yet covered one of my all time favourites from him

yun to kuch kam nahin jo aap ne ehsan kiye
par jo mange se na paya woh sila yaad aaya


wish MR had sung them-but MK has not done a bad job

woh afsana jise anjaam tak lana na ho mumkin
use ik khubsurat mod deke bhool na behtar


the songs had a tremendous effect if u see the movie-it had relevance

ilm nahin tha itni jaldi khatma fasane ho jayenge
tum begane ban jaoge hum diwane ho jayenge


pls put ur input on this movie-one of my all time sahir's best

raah mein bichi hui hai meri har nazar
main tadap raha hoon aur tu hai bekhabar


once again Madhavi-kudos to u-good job-great thread



Posted by: nasir Jul 27 2006, 11:15 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 27 2006, 01:24 PM) *

Unni and Nasir Ji

Thank you for your warm appreciation. smile.gif

By the way Nasir Ji, as I keep saying no Madhavi ji, only Madhavi. I checked on the two great threads that you have started on Mohd. Rafi Sahab, after reading Unni's comment. My loss that it was the first time I had visited those threads. Anyway, der aaye par durust aaye. Will keep tabs on both of 'em now. I enjoyed all the incidental details that you had included about the movies along with the translations. And how wonderful to have actually met Sahir. We definitely look forward to having some insights from you.

Just realised that a longish post by Anupama is lost, I hope she has saved it... sad.gif

BC, if you have that long comment about Sahir's verse that you had posted in response to the Bahu Begum song, please post it again. I was planning to translate it as you had requested.


Okay, no "Ji", Madhavi. Thanks for the encouragement re those two threads. But Madhavi, I am no Urdu buff, nor have any knowledge of urdu unfortunately, save and excepting that it happens to be my mother-tongue. The truth is, I learnt some Urdu or Hindustani from our filmy songs. So I would not be able to come up with any worthwhile contribution in this forum despite my desires. No point in showing the lamp to the sun. But I am going to educate myself here. Please accept my heartiest congratulations for highlighting Sahir Sahaab's poems (and some of them are "toughie" like the one you translated above) and bringing them to common people like us. All the best Madhavi.

NASIR.

p.s. No "ji" please. smile.gif All the best...again..

Posted by: ashgupta3 Jul 28 2006, 12:43 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 27 2006, 01:24 PM) *

Just realised that a longish post by Anupama is lost, I hope she has saved it... sad.gif

I too am looking forward for that mail, I vaguely remember it. So if she or someone else has saved it, plz post it. Anyway I think we need to hear more often from someone who has walked on the same portals as Sahir.


Posted by: bawlachintu Jul 28 2006, 09:47 PM

Saja dene ka niral tarika:

Hum moond ke palkon ko is dil ko saja den to?????????

rolleyes.gif

Sochon doston: socho wink.gif
A thoughtful romantic song with depth!

Sahir aur Sachin Dev Burman ka kamal

Sc-Rolling back the Afsana-e-Sahir. Is gaane pe masala idhar hai
http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=24011&view=findpost&p=260733

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 28 2006, 09:59 PM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Jul 28 2006, 11:17 AM) *

Saja dene ka niral tarika:

Hum moond ke palkon ko is dil ko saja den to?????????

rolleyes.gif

Sochon doston: socho wink.gif
A thoughtful romantic song with depth!

Sahir aur Sachin Dev Burman ka kamal



Aakhri kamaal unfortunately...

Thanks Ash for the list. Will go back to some of them in just a bit. Yes, I think we need to bully Nasir into sharing their thoughts here... Just realised you meant Anupama...absolutely need to keep the pressure on her tongue1.gif

CM, what a great album it is! And yes, practically all the songs are special in it. Am listening to them right now. Will get back with my chavannis on the songs def by tomorrow... smile.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 31 2006, 03:36 AM

Gumrah (1963)

The siren call of illicit desires… songs are so crucial a part of Hindi cinema, they complete and sometimes contradict the film in so many ways, often going beyond the limitations imposed by the story or the structure of the film itself.

Take a film like Gumraah for example; the title itself weighs heavily on the side of the conservative stand. The story had director BR Chopra venturing on difficult terrain especially in mainstream cinema. Infidelity, extra-marital affairs especially involving the woman, are certainly still taboo subjects in Indian Cinema. Naturally the story is bowdlerized to fit the sentiments of the mainstream audience even though it was touted as a "daring" film in its time. A young Mala Sinha and Sunil Dutt fall in love but before they can get married, Mala Sinha's sister dies and she is compelled to marry her much older brother-in-law Ashok Kumar to look after her young niece and nephew. She is the errant wife who clandestinely meets her lover but in the end she chooses to be "responsible" and remain with her husband and kids. However most of the actual plot of the film is really concerned with the scheming blackmailer (Shashikala, if I remember correctly), thus getting sympathy for the beleaguered heroine in this fashion and really it takes away the focus from the issue of infidelity…

Interestingly, Silsila(1981), that was made by brother Yash Chopra, and got a tremendous amount of flak from all quarters, logically extends what Gumraah set out to explore. In spite of the stilted acting from all quarters and the over-profiled stars and their private lives, the film was bold for its time. Remember the reason for Amitabh marrying Jaya is because Jaya is pregnant with Shashi’s (Amitabh’s brother) child. So Jaya’s character does not fit the typical mould of the pati-vrata naari . She had loved Shashi Kapoor before and later on tells Amitabh that Shashi was her past and Amitabh is her present. The way Yash Chopra dealt with infidelity in marriage is also very interesting. Hindi songs came to his rescue again when he needs to show physical passion and infidelity. Check out the vid of “Ye Kahan Aa gaye hum” where there are fleeting shots of Amitabh and Rekha in bed which could definitely not be shown otherwise without making the subject too controversial. However Yash Chopra does show them eloping and the film does suggest how passion can easily feel sordid (even to the lovers) when it does not have social sanction, witness the discomfort that Rekha and Amitabh feel when they attend a close friend’s wedding having left their respective spouses behind.

But that was the eighties and Silsila finally sank unable to handle its overblown starcast, emotions and ending… to come back to the sixties and Gumraah once again, infidelity is touched upon but sparingly. The film does acknowledge it as issue which is saying a lot in commercial Hindi films where characters, especially those of women are fairly flat and they are definitely made to uphold the burden of morality. Gumraah someone who has lost one’s way…with a title such as this the ending does not come as much of a surprise, however the film does have some surprises up its sleeve viz. Ashok Kumar’s acting (he got the national award for it) and Sahir’s passionate poetry. To finally come to the point amid my circumlocutions…Sahir’s verses rise above the shackles imposed by the film and its fairly predictable conclusion…

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jul 31 2006, 03:44 AM

"Gumrah", the lost ones who are brought back within the fold of society…and verses penned by Sahir, undermining the logic of that story…

In hawaon mein in fizaaon mein tujhko mera pyar pukare
Aaja aaja re tujh ko mera pyar pukare
Ruk na paun main khinchti aaun …tujhko mera pyar pukare

Laut rahi hain meri sadayen deewaron se sar takra ke
Haath pakad kar chalne wale ho gaye rukhsat haat chuda ke
Unko kuch bhi yaad nahin hai ab koi sau baar pukaare…
Aaja aaja re tujhko mera pyar pukare…

Ilm nahin tha itni jaldi khatm fasane ho jayenge
Tum begane ban jaoge hum deewane ho jayenge
Kal baahon ka haar mila tha aaj ashkon ka haar pukaare
Aaja aaja re tujhko mera pyar pukare

Loot ke mere dil ki duniya pyaar ke jhoole jhoolne waale(2)
Patthar ban kar yun chup kyun hai kuch to keh o bhoolnewale
Ek purani yaad bulaaye ek toota ikraar pukaree
Aaja aaja re…


In hawaon mein in fizaon mein tujhko mera pyar pukare…it is a lover’s passionate cry and receives the woman’s equally passionate response “ruk na paaun main/khinchti aaun main …” the intensity and the passionate images that the song evokes are way beyond the scope of the film which could not even hint at sexual infidelity. If I remember correctly, it has Mala Sinha primly committing the ultimate digression of going over to Sunil Dutt’s house to watch him paint without her husband’s knowledge.

Laut rahin hain meri sadayen deewaron se sar takra ke …the film adds faintly negative tones to Sunil Dutt’s character, he is the aggressor who can potentially break up a marriage. However, in the song, he is the betrayed one and the lovers are the ones whose world has been shattered. “Samaaj” as “deewar”, or phrases such as “tum begane ban jaoge hum dewane ho jayenge” or “loot ke mere dil ki duniya” are all part of the vocabulary of a love story or a passionate romance, in the social drama of “Gumraah” they have no place…


Aap aaye to khayale dile nashaad aaya(2)
Kitne bhoole hue zakhmon ka pata yaad aaya

Nashaad:unhappy

Aap ke lab pe kabhi apna bhi naam aaya tha
Sokh nazron se mohabbat ka salaam aaya tha
Umr bhar saath nibhane ka payaam aaya tha
Aap ko dekh ke wo ehde wafa yaad aaya
Kitne bhoole hue zakhmon ka pata yaad aaya

Rooh mein jal uthe bujhti hui yaadon ke diye
Kaise deewane the hum aap ko pane ke liye
Yun to kuch kam nahin jo aap ne ehsaan kiye
Par jo maange se na paya wo sila yaad aaya
Kitne bhoole hue zakhmon ka pata yaad aaya

Aaj wo baat nahin phir bhi koi baat to hai
Mere hisse mein ye halki si mulaqaat to hai
Gair ka hoke bhi ye husn mere saath to hai
Haye kis waqt mujhe tab ka gila yaad aaya
Kitne bhoole hue zakhmon ka pata yaad aaya


When you came, I remembered my unhappy heart… “Aap aaye” that is the digression that Mala Sinha commits in the movie, she brings back to the lover the consciousness of his forgotten, unhappy heart. And in this song too… “zakm” “ehde wafa” “gila” “gair”(the husband in this case) they are all words that give a certain sanctity to their “illicit” “gumraah” desires… The lover is grateful enough, he says for the favors she has granted him, but…what he had asked for and did not get is what him haunts him…
Intemperance… in terms of the social drama, it is articulated as tragedy in the context of the song.

Penned by the volatile, rebellious Sahir who always found himself in love in the wrong situations, the songs are all presented from the lovers’ point of view; here social concerns don’t function the way they do in the movie. Check out this song from the movie for example; what a superb beginning,

Chalo ek baar phir se ajnabi ban jayen hum dono(2)

Na main tumse koi ummeed rakhoon dil navaazi ki
Na tum meri taraf dekho galat andaaz nazaron se
Na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkhadaye meri baton mein
Na zahir ho tumhari kashmakash ka raaz nazron se
Chalo ek baar phir se…

Dil-nazaavi: soothing the mind

Chalo ek baar phir se ajnabi ban jayen hum dono”…Let us become strangers one more time, the lover suggesting bitterly to his girlfriend that they turn back the clock, that they become strangers one more time…

And then follow a series of situations that are stated in the negative…the lover is stating that once that happens (their becoming strangers), the following will not happen:
He will not expect her to soothe his mind
She will not look at him…what a superb phrase used in the context of the erring lovers… “galat andaz nazron se”
His heart will not trip amid his conversations
Her eyes will not reveal the secret of her tumultuous (emotions)
Through these negatives in fact the lover defiantly reveals the present state of the lovers…

Tumhe bhi koi uljhan rokti hai pesh kadmi se
Mujhe bhi log kehte hain ki ye jalwe paraye hai
Mere hamraah bhi rusvaiyan hain mere maazi ki
Tumhari saath bhi guzri hui raaton ke saaye hain
Chalo ek baar phir se…

Rusvaiyan: infamous/dishonoured/disgraced
Maazi: past


In the second stanza the lover is more aware of the social constraints…He knows she is inhibited by some considerations, he is also constrained by social opinion. He has to contend with the “disgraces” of his past and memories of shared passion with her…

Taaruf rog ho haaye to usko bhoolna achha (introduction?)
Taaluk bojh ban jaye to use todana achha
Wo afsaane jise anjaam tak laana na ho mumkin
Use ek khoobsurat mod de ke chodna achha
Chalo ek baar phir se…


The compromise he suggests in the last stanza is underlined with bitterness. If an introduction/knowledge becomes an illness, it is better to forget it. If a relationship becomes a burden, it is best to break it…Stories that cannot reach their logical conclusion should be given a beautiful twist and abandoned... The last stanza contends with the negative images such as “rog” and “bojh” in which their relationship might be viewed hence the compromise he suggests, “Wo afsane jise anjaam tak laana na ho mumkin/Use ek khoobsurat mod de ke chodna achha”

Sahir as the eternally rejected lover-poet has given a "khoobsurat mod" to those incomplete stories and relationships in the form of his songs that have far outlived the films themselves.

For the life of me I cannot locate the full "Chalo ek Baar" that has the crucial third stanza. wacko.gif It is a common enough song, if someone will kindly do the honors... rolleyes.gif

Posted by: Talaikya Jul 31 2006, 04:25 AM

Coming up shortly... and here it is. Consider it a very small but heartfelt thank you for this wonderful thread bow.gif

[attachmentid=74524]
DVD rip 4:28 mins @ 128

Posted by: bawlachintu Jul 31 2006, 09:34 AM

Gumrah, a real alag-hatke story. Love-triangle....na na
its a triangle of different sort. BR Chopra's ambitious project executed brilliantly.

Highlight of the film is effort made by Ashok Kumar to bring her
wife back from Bhatke-hue-kadam(affinity with Sunil Dutt-who sings
'chalo ek baar fir se ajnabi ban jayen hum dono' throughout the film). A song characteristic of good
use of violin-choir.

Ye nazm hai ghazal nahin. Ghazal experts please explain the difference between Nazm and ghazal.


Posted by: cinemaniac2 Aug 2 2006, 12:01 AM

great Madhavi-keep it up-we need more like u

but

yunh to kuch kam nahin jo
aapne ehsan kiye

par jo mange se na paya
woh sila yaad aaya

one more pls-the last one

raah mein bichi hui hai meri har nazar
main tadap raha hoon aur tu hai bekhabar



Posted by: ashgupta3 Aug 2 2006, 04:40 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 31 2006, 03:44 AM) *

Penned by the volatile, rebellious Sahir who always found himself in love in the wrong situations

I have my own view as to y that happened, and will write it some other time

QUOTE

She will not look at him…what a superb phrase used in the context of the erring lovers… “galat andaz nazron se”

The sheer beauty of this whole stanza is breathless, I rank this one much higher than the 3rd stanza, which is generally considered more popular.

QUOTE

Sahir as the eternally rejected lover-poet has given a "khoobsurat mod" to those incomplete stories and relationships in the form of his songs that have far outlived the films themselves.

WOW what a remarkable way to honour his work bow.gif Did u think of it just now, or is it a long processed thought? I have to say reading ur description of the songs seems as poetic as the songs themselves clap2.gif

Posted by: cinemaniac2 Aug 7 2006, 10:52 PM

non related

there is a dmuk -usually posts in KK forums

any relation ?


Posted by: ashgupta3 Aug 7 2006, 10:57 PM

Just posting lyric of a song so that this thread move a bit smile1.gif

Movie : Bahu Begam, Asha, Roshan

Nikle they kahan jaane ke liye, pahunche hain kahan maaloom nahi
ab apne bhatakte kadmon ko, manzil ka nishaan maaloom nahi

Humne bhi kabhi is gulshan mei, ek khwaab-e-bahara dekha tha
kab phool jhade, kab gurd udi, kab aayi khizaan maaloom nahi

Dil shola-e-gum se khaak hua, ya aag lagi armaano mei
kya cheez jali kyon seene se, utha hai dhuaan maaloom nahi

Barbaad wafa ka afsana, hum kis se kahen aur kaise kahen
khamosh hain lub aur duniya ko, ashkon ki zubaan maaloom nahi


Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 8 2006, 02:45 AM

QUOTE(cinemaniac2 @ Aug 1 2006, 01:31 PM) *

but

yunh to kuch kam nahin jo
aapne ehsan kiye

par jo mange se na paya
woh sila yaad aaya

one more pls-the last one

raah mein bichi hui hai meri har nazar
main tadap raha hoon aur tu hai bekhabar



tongue1.gif

Ye hawa ye hawa ye hawa
Ye fiza ye fiza ye fiza
Hai udas jaise mera dil
Mera dil, mera dil mera dil
Aa bhi ja, aa bhi ja, aa bhi ja

Aa ki ab to chandni bhi zard ho chali
Dhadkanon ki narm aanch sard ho chali
Dhal chali hai raat aa ke mil
Aa bhi ja aa bhi ja

Rah mein bichi hui hai meri har nazar
Main tadap raha hun aur too hai bekhabar
Ruk rahi hai saans aa ke mil
Aa bhi ja, aa bhi ja, aa bhi ja
Hai udas jaise mera dil


The obsessive repetition, pounding at the girl's defenses, reveals the lover's urgency. The lover does not hold back or dress up his emotions, he is calling out urgently for her to meet him, "main tadap rahan hoon aur tu hai bekhabar", his very life depends on her response "Ruk rahi hai saans aa ke mil". Beautifully sung by MK, a perfect blend where the heightened pitch of the singer merges with the rhythm and content of the song....

QUOTE
there is a dmuk -usually posts in KK forums

any relation ?


Nopes ... Though I am sure we are in relative harmony in our appreciation of KK's songs... smile.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 8 2006, 03:14 AM

QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Aug 1 2006, 06:10 PM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 31 2006, 03:44 AM) *

Penned by the volatile, rebellious Sahir who always found himself in love in the wrong situations

I have my own view as to y that happened, and will write it some other time

QUOTE

She will not look at him…what a superb phrase used in the context of the erring lovers… “galat andaz nazron se”

The sheer beauty of this whole stanza is breathless, I rank this one much higher than the 3rd stanza, which is generally considered more popular.

QUOTE

Sahir as the eternally rejected lover-poet has given a "khoobsurat mod" to those incomplete stories and relationships in the form of his songs that have far outlived the films themselves.

WOW what a remarkable way to honour his work bow.gif Did u think of it just now, or is it a long processed thought? I have to say reading ur description of the songs seems as poetic as the songs themselves clap2.gif


Thanks Ash for the detailed response. Would really like to hear what your views are on Sahir's obsessions... By the way, I am sure you have read Kanchan Mehta's article on Amrita Pritam... Here is a quote from that article that I found very interesting:

I drew Imroz’s attention to Amrita’s relationships with other men mentioned in her writing. Was Amrita’s love for Sahir only a fancy? He shrugged and said, "Sahir was a seducer. He tempted and ensnared many eminent women". Amrita had a pure, deep and unflinching passion for Sahir. But, Sahir was only a weaver of dreams and could never go beyond that. He did not care for Amrita’s feelings for him. He never read her Sunheie (Message), originally composed for him.

Maybe a lover's bitter perception/criticism of a rival but inadvertantly reveals the tremendous attraction of that persona...

"Na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkhadaye meri baaton mein" ... that phrase is so immediate, palpable and emotive, and that stanza, you are right, literally leaves you breathless.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 8 2006, 03:30 AM

QUOTE(Talaikya @ Jul 30 2006, 05:55 PM) *

Coming up shortly... and here it is. Consider it a very small but heartfelt thank you for this wonderful thread bow.gif

[attachmentid=74524]
DVD rip 4:28 mins @ 128



Thanks Tji for the prompt response ...bow.gif smile.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 8 2006, 03:35 AM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Jul 30 2006, 11:04 PM) *

Gumrah, a real alag-hatke story. Love-triangle....na na
its a triangle of different sort. BR Chopra's ambitious project executed brilliantly.

Highlight of the film is effort made by Ashok Kumar to bring her
wife back from Bhatke-hue-kadam(affinity with Sunil Dutt-who sings
'chalo ek baar fir se ajnabi ban jayen hum dono' throughout the film). A song characteristic of good
use of violin-choir.

Ye nazm hai ghazal nahin. Ghazal experts please explain the difference between Nazm and ghazal.



BC., I am pasting a useful article on this from the web:


QUOTE
Subject: What is Ghazal????
From: mzaidi@eden.rutgers.edu (LAHORI)
Date: 1996/11/12
Message-Id: <56aq3a$fki@er5.rutgers.edu>
Organization: Rutgers University
Newsgroups: alt.language.urdu.poetry

Hello all,

Its been a long time since i came on board ALUP last. Couple of things that i noticed, first the FAQ by Mr. Khursheed Ahmad is a commendable thing, secondly
the fruitlessness of it. Third, atleast there is something posted on urdu-
related subjects here and there. thats encouraging.

Mr. Abhay Avachat wrote a nice article on "film songs-ghazals or not". But
there are a couple of points that i would like to clarify here. Mr. Avachat
wrote that "Do NOT equate ghazal with 'ishqia shaa'iree', and that there is
no limit as to the subjects or language used in a ghazal." Both statements are
not quite true. Last year i had posted an article about "the forms of urdu
poetry", in which there were cmplete definitions and explanations of all the
recognized urdu poetrry forms. unfortunately i dont have that article saved.
But i would like to say something about the ghazal form in context of the above
statements made by MMr. Avachat......briefly.

"Ghazal" form was first used in Arabic language, in which it means "to talk to
women", more precisely, "love-talk with women". From there it was incorporated
into Persian language. In persian, ghazal's literary meaning is "the
characteristic mating call of a particular persian deer". Ghazal in Persian
retained its basic form and purpose of love-talk. Ghazal's essentials include
priase of one's beloved, his/her beauty, attitude, love, way of talking, gate,
etc, etc. Ghazal can not have adverse opinions about your beloved except his/
her indifference, "bay-wafai", "bay-ruKhee", etc. All this makes the subjects
of a ghazal very limited. In short, Ghazal is meant to be "ishqia shaa'iree",
and its subjects and language very limited.

But poets of the more modern persia, and then in Urdu, have incorporated a
wide variety of new subjects into ghazals, e.g. politics, education, etc, to
which Maulana Haali refers to "chooN chooN ka murabba". Ghalib said:

B'qadr-e-zauq naheeN zarf-e-tang-naa'ay ghazal
Kuchh aur chaahee'ay wUs'at m'ray bayaN kay liyay

which means, in a nutshell, that the parameters of ghazal are not expansive
enough for what I want to say.

so the conclusion here is that ghazal IS "ishqia shairee", atleast originally,
and that the subjects and language used is limited.

In the end, i would like to state the basic difference between "NAZM" and
ghazal, and that is that whereas a nazm can be a collection of couplets (or
it can have triplets, quatrains, or no rhyming at all), the couplets of a nazm
have to be on the same subject and one sher is related to the theme and subject
of the nazm, but a ghazal's shers are independent entities in themselves, they
do not have to be on the same subject or even related to any other sher in
any way. if and when two shers of a ghazal are related to each other and are
on the same subject, they have to be placed right next to each other, and are
called collectively a "QAT'AA".

hope this explanation helps a little bit in understanding of the ghazal form.
i welcome any comments, additions, etc on this article.

regards,

Raza Zaidi.
mzaidi@eden.rutgers.edu

Posted by: cinemaniac2 Aug 10 2006, 11:29 PM

BC-ur new avtaar- neither do u look like a bawla nor a chintu

u look like a experienced suave seducer.

and Mmuk-ur one side lat looks superb.

now back to business

Aaj Ki Raat Nahin shikwe shikayat ki raat
aaj har lamha mohabbat ke liye
reshmi.......
...........
...........
subah ne aaj na aane ki kasam khayi hai
aaj ki raat......



a top class suhaag raat song.

another SL classic

Posted by: nasir Aug 10 2006, 11:37 PM

GHAZAL OR NAZM?
AS LONG I AM ENRAPTURED I DON'T CARE.

NASIR.

Posted by: bawlachintu Aug 11 2006, 01:04 PM

QUOTE(cinemaniac2 @ Aug 10 2006, 11:29 PM) *

BC-ur new avtaar- neither do u look like a bawla nor a chintu

u look like a experienced suave seducer.


Yes I do, in real life too wink.gif
Thanks for the compliment, cinemanaic.

'Bawla' word is taken in memory of my swargiya girlfriend and
'chintu' is the address used by my uncle living in Delhi. rolleyes.gif

By the way, chintu is a very common address in Delhi. A word used to call
employees, subordinates, teammembers etc etc biggrin.gif ninja.gif

Posted by: bawlachintu Aug 23 2006, 01:25 PM

Tapti hui rahon se tujhe anch na pahunche
deewane ke ashqon ki ghata saath liye jaa


Must be written by Sahir in melancholy moments and composed by
the MD in same mood, I think.

Identify which song these lines are taken from??
Describe the song if possible.

Posted by: nasir Aug 23 2006, 08:10 PM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Aug 23 2006, 01:25 PM) *

Tapti hui rahon se tujhe anch na pahunche
deewane ke ashqon ki ghata saath liye jaa


Must be written by Sahir in melancholy moments and composed by
the MD in same mood, I think.

Identify which song these lines are taken from??
Describe the song if possible.



smile.gif These lines are from the heart wrenching song: BARBAADE MUHABBAT KI DUA SAATH LIYE JAA.
From LAILA MAJNU (1976) the comeback period of Rafi Sahaab. MD: Madan Mohan.

NASIR.

Posted by: zankib Aug 24 2006, 12:48 PM

the music for this song was arranged by jaidev.
barbaad-e-muhabbat sounds more jaidev-ish than
mm-ish. But this song also showed up on one of HMV's madan mohan
compilations. jaidev tried his level best to match the mood of master
madan mohan. tere dar pe aaya hoon is a pure madan compilation

Posted by: Bhrung Aug 27 2006, 01:01 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Aug 8 2006, 03:35 AM) *


BC., I am pasting a useful article on this from the web:
QUOTE
Subject: What is Ghazal????
From: mzaidi@eden.rutgers.edu (LAHORI)




Madhavi, I am pasting Abhay Avchat's article, the one Zaidi refers to. In the modern era, Zaidi's views are a trifle outmoded. He would prefer to restrict the definition of a ghazal to the traditional 'ravani' ghazal. But the great ghazal writers of the twentieth century, Jigar, Faiz and many others have definitely and definitively expanded its perimeters to include 'tarakkipasand' and 'jadeed' ghazals. Anyway here's Avchat's basic article :

What is a Ghazal? : eBazm.comWhat is a Ghazal ?
Author : Abhay Avachat


Ghazal ! The word originates from arabic, meaning, "way or mannerism of talking
to or talking about women." Thus in fact it s an expression of love! But in this
ever changing world the ghazal has become a reflection of the life around us,
and now there is hardly any sphere of human interaction which the ghazal hasn't
touched.

To better understand the finer nuances of Urdu ghazal it is imperative to
understand the structure around which a ghazal is woven!

Classical Definition of Ghazal

Briefly stated Ghazal is a collection of Sher's which follow the rules of
'Matla', 'Maqta', 'Beher', 'Kaafiyaa' and 'Radif'. So to know what Ghazal is,
it's necessary to know what these terms mean.

To understand these terms easily , we will take an example.

1. koi ummid bar nahin aati
koi surat nazar nahin aati.

2. aage aati thi haale dil par hasi
ab kisi baat par nahin aati

3. hum wahan hain, jahan se humko bhi
kucch hamaari khabar nahin aati

4. kaabaa kis muh se jaaoge 'Ghalib'
sharm tumko magar nahin aati


What is a Sher ?
It's a poem of two lines. This definition is deceptively simple. Please note
that, every Sher is a poem in itself ! A Sher does not need, anything around it,
to convey the message. All the 4 stanzas in our example are independent poems,
Sher's.

So Ghazal is necessarily a collection of two-line-poems called Sher. [ So the
Rafi solo "rang aur noor ki baaraat kise pesh karu" is NOT a Ghazal, as every
stanza is of 3 lines, and not 2. ]

What are other restrictions ? Many, and important ones.
[ Any collection of Sher's is not Ghazal. Some good examples are ; the famous
Mukesh song from Yehoodi, "yeh mera deewaanaapan hai" ; and the title song of
"dil apana aur preet parayi". Each stanza in these songs can be considered as an
independent Sher, but they are NOT Ghazal's. To understand, why, we have to wait
till 'Kaafiyaa, 'Radif'. ]

What is 'Beher' ?
'Beher' is the 'meter' of the Sher's. It can be considered as the length of the
Sher. Both the lines in the Sher *MUST* be of same 'Beher'. And all the Sher's
in one Ghazal *MUST* be of the same 'Beher'. There are 19 (!!) kinds of 'Beher'.
But in simple terms, 'Beher' is categorized in 3 classes. Short, medium, long.

Small :
ahale dairo-haram reh gaye
tere deewane kam reh gaye
[ Also Talat song, "dil-e-nadan tuze hua kya hai" ]

Medium :
umr jalwo me basar ho, ye zaruri to nahin
har shab-e-gam ki seher ho, ye zaruri to nahin
[ And by Gulzar, "ruke ruke se kadam, ruk ke baar baar chale" ]

Long :
ai mere humnashin, chal kahin aur chal, is chaman me ab apanaa guzaaraa nahin
baat hoti gulon ki, to seh lete hum, ab to kaaton pe bhi haq hamaaraa nahin
[ The filmfare winner, "Manzile apani jagah hai" !! Yes ! It IS a Ghazal. And
the Shayar is Prakash Mehra !! surprise , surprise !! ]

So Ghazal is a collection of Sher's of SAME 'Beher'.


What is 'Radif' ?
In a Ghazal, second line of all the Sher's MUST end with the SAME word/s. This
repeating common words is the Radif' of the Ghazal. In our example, the 'Radif'
is "nahin aati". [ Sometimes, the Ghazal becomes known by its 'Radif'. eg.
"jaraa aahista chal" sung by Pankaj Udhas. On RMIM we all know one Ghazal by the
'Radif' as "aahista aahista", don't we ? or is it 2 or 3 ? :-)

What is 'Kaafiyaa' ?
'Kaafiyaa' is the rhyming pattern which all the words before 'Radif' MUST have.
In our example the 'Kaafiyaa' is "bar", "nazar", "par", "magar" etc. This is a
necessary requirement. Something which is followed even in the exceptions to all
these rules.

So Ghazal is a collection of Sher's of same 'Beher', ending in same 'Radif' and
having same 'Kaafiyaa'. [ That's the reason, why "yeh mera diwanapan hai" etc.
are NOT Ghazals. There is no common thing which can be called 'Kaafiyaa' and
'Radif'. ]

What is 'Matla' ?
The first Sher in the Ghazal *MUST* have 'Radif' in its both lines. This Sher is
called 'Matla' of the Ghazal and the Ghazal is usually known after its 'Matla'.
There can be more than one 'Matla' in a Ghazal. In such a case the second one is
called 'Matla-e-saani' or 'Husn-e-matla'. In our example, the first Sher is the
'Matla'.

What is 'Maqta' ?
A Shayar usually has an alias ie. 'takhallus' eg. Mirza Asadullakhan used
'Ghalib' as his 'takhallus' and is known by that. Other examples are 'Daag'
Dehlvi, 'Mir' Taqi Mir, Said 'Rahi', Ahmed 'Faraz' etc. There is a Sher in a
Ghazal, the last one, which has the Shayar's 'takhallus' in it. [ A Shayar, can
use the 'Maqta' very intelligently. He can "talk to himself" like one in our
example. I have lots of favourite Sher's which are 'Maqta' of some Ghazal. Some
gems are

koi nam-o-nishan puchhe to ai kaasid bataa denaa,
takhallus 'Daag' hai, aur aahiqon ke dil me rehte hai

and

jab bhi milte hain, to kehte hain, "kaise ho 'Shakil'",
iske aage to koi baat nahin hoti hai

The first one uses the meaning of the 'takhallus' to create the magic, and the
second one is just simple, simply beautiful. ]

To summarize, Ghazal is a collection of Sher's (independent two-line poems), in
which there is atleast one 'Matla', one 'Maqta' and all the Sher's are of same
'Beher' and have the same 'Kaafiyaa' and 'Radif'.









Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 2 2006, 07:56 AM


For Anupama, two songs soaked in despair...

Here are the lines from "Raseedi Ticket" quoted by Anupama:

QUOTE
Amrita Pritam wrote in her autobiography - Raseedi Ticket :-
"I recall - many years ago when Sahir had come to Delhi, he invited me and Imroz to the hotel where he was staying. We were there for a couple of hours. Sahir had placed an order for whisky and there were three glasses on the table. We returned deep into the night.And when it was almost midnight - Sahir called me up saying : " There are still three glasses lying on the table, and by turn I am sipping from each of them, and writing '' These Empty Goblets Are My Companions." ( Mere Saathi Khaali Jaam )


Dooj ka Chand(1964): Roshan

Mehfil se uth jane walon tum logon par kya ilzaam
Tum abaad gharon ke baasi main awaara aur badnaam
Mere Saathi, mere saathi, mere saathi khaali jaam

Do din tumne pyar jataya, do din tumse mel raha
Aachha khasa waqt kata aur achha khasa khel raha
Ab us khel ka jikr hi kaisa, waqt kata aur khel tamaam
Mere saathi...

Tumne dhoondhi sukh ki daulat, maine pala gham ka rog
Kaise banta kaise nibhta ye rishta aur ye sanjog
Maine dil ko dil se tola tumne maange pyar ke daam
Mere Saathi ...

Tum duniya ko behtar samjhe main pagal tha khwaar hua
Tumko apnane nikla tha khud se bhi bezaar hua
Dekh liya ghar phoonk tamasha jaan liya apna anjaam
Mere saathi...


Bezaar: angry, disgusted, out of humor
Khar: angry, thistle/thorn,


Mehfil se uth jane walon... the sense of being suddenly abandoned, it is a very dramatic and visual beginning. The word "abaad" is suggestive of being peopled, flourishing, whereas the opposite of that would be "barbaad" which is not actually used in the song to describe the poet's situation. Instead the opposting term is "awaara" "badnaam" suggesting his disassociation from any social moorings...
The only companions he has are -and it is in the repetition and brilliant rendition of Rafi's "mere saathi, mere saathi, mere saathi...khali jaam", that the song really packs the emotional punch...and it is this word "Khaali" that finally opposes the earlier analogies of mehfil and abaad.

That emptiness seeps into the following stanzas. He rejects any sense of fulfilment in their relationship, it has been a futile time offering nothing, "waqt Kata aur khel tamam".
The opposing images that he chooses for the lover and the girl who left him are unique in that they do not form what I can only call parallel oppositions. In the same way as "abaad" is not pitted against "barbaad" in the second stanza, in response to"tumne dhoondhi sukh ki daulat" the poet is not saying he has chosen "pyar ki daulat" but uses the much more galling "maine pala gham ka rog" ... It is definitely not a positive emotion that he pits against his beloved's materialism... There is nothing heroic or defiant but something very dreary about this image, it is a sickness that he has nurtured...Only in the last line does he allow himself an accusation: "Maine dil ko dil se tola/tumne maange pyar ke daam" but in the next stanza the tone lapses back into despair.

A situation where the beloved has chosen someone else over the lover/poet and is obviously in a better position is often accusatory in tone but in this song the dominant emotion is that of exhausion. He agrees that she understood the world better, she is a survivor, he is the crazy one who ended up getting angry and disillusioned. The second line is an ironic look at himself, rare in disappointed lovers... "tumko apnane nikla tha khud se bhi bezaar hua" he was looking to support her in a relationship and has ended up alienated from himself. The self criticism continues, he has ended up with nothing, his "house" blown up into dust, becoming a mere spectacle of the moment and he knows where he is headed...

Now take a look at another song from a drunk lover once again in Rafi's magical voice(I cannot imagine any other singer singing this song)

Whereas the first song emerges out of personal disappointment at the breaking up of a relationship the self ananlysis, depairing though it is,still functions from within the parameters(social/material/emotional), drawn by society. The second song is much more nihilistic. Emerging out of the same situation, it goes on to incredible, iconoclastic denunciations, a coalesing of perhaps a lot of the questions and emotions that one feels/or might feel across the span of a lifetime, or some of those at least...


Vaasna (1968): Chitragupt

Aaj is darja pila do ke na kuch yaad rahe
Bekhudi itni badha do ke na kuch yaad rahe

Dosti kya hai wafa kya hai mohabbat kya hai
Dil ka kya mol ahsaas ki keemat kya hai
Hamne sab jaan liya hai ke haqeeqat kya hai
Aaj bas itni dua do ke na kuch yaad rahe

Muflisi dekhi ameeri ki ada dekh chuke
Gham ka mahaul mussarrat ki fiza dekh chuke
Kaise phirti hai zamane ki hawa dekh chuke
Shama yaadon ki bujha do ke na kuch yaad rahe
Aaj is darja...

Ishq bechain khayalon ke siwa kuch bhi nahin
Husn berooh ujalon ke siwa kuch bhi nahin
Zindagi chand sawalon ke siwa kuch bhi nahin
Har sawaal aise mita do ke na kuch yaad rahe
Aaj is darja...

Mit na payega jahan se kabhi nafrat ka rivaaz
Ho na payega kabhi rooh ke zakhmon ka ilaaz
SUltanat zulm khuda vahm museebat hai samaaj
Zehan ko aise sula do ke na kuch yaad rahe...


Musarrat: joy
Zehan: mind


Erasing memories...

He begins by attacking the three mainstays of human relationships...Dosti, wafa and mohabbat...He has realised what those concepts mean...just as he knows the truth about the value of the heart and the value of emotions.

In the second stanza, he rejects not just the lifestyle of the rich , but also that of the "muflis", an identity he sought to don in so many of his other poems, he has experienced both happiness and despair...and rejects both in the context how how fickle the mood of the world is vis-a vis both. In this poem too he uses repetition as a tool to drive home a point, in the first stanza he uses the word "Kya hai" to underscore his questioning, in the second stanza he uses the ironic "dekhi/dekh chuke".

The mood of the poem builds towards rejection of some of the most cherished subjects of his own poetry...

Love is nothing but restless imagination
Beauty is nothing but soulless light
Life is nothing beyond a few questions...

It is impossible to erase the culture of hatred in this world and impossible to cure the wounds of the soul... and finally moves to articulate some of his most iconoclastic metaphors in poetry...

Sultanat zulm, khuda vehm, museebat hai samaaj

And then ...
Let the mind sleep in such a way that the memories don't haunt...

Sahir has palpably moved away from the personal disappointment in love that the song begins with, moving to a sweeping rejection of everything that he has held dear uptil now. If the first poem is despairing, the poet disappointed in love coming face to face with the fact that his affair, his ideals and his life have been in vain, the second song is much vaster in scope, his personal disappointment quickly moving on to a rejection of all relationships, lifestyles, ideals and ideologies...The second poem is no less despairing but the scope of the despair is much wider, not just encompassing the poet and his life but all human endeavour...And yet the beauty and power of the poem lies in how personal he makes that rejection...

As I have not seen either of the films it would be useful to get some more information on how the songs were used in the films.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 2 2006, 08:11 AM

QUOTE(Bhrung @ Aug 26 2006, 02:31 PM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Aug 8 2006, 03:35 AM) *


BC., I am pasting a useful article on this from the web:
QUOTE
Subject: What is Ghazal????
From: mzaidi@eden.rutgers.edu (LAHORI)




Madhavi, I am pasting Abhay Avchat's article, the one Zaidi refers to. In the modern era, Zaidi's views are a trifle outmoded. He would prefer to restrict the definition of a ghazal to the traditional 'ravani' ghazal. But the great ghazal writers of the twentieth century, Jigar, Faiz and many others have definitely and definitively expanded its perimeters to include 'tarakkipasand' and 'jadeed' ghazals. Anyway here's Avchat's basic article :[color=#3333FF]




Milind

Thank you for an excellent article on the definition of a ghazal. A quick question, I could understand what you meant by "ravani" by going back to Zaidi's article, and can figure out "tarakkipasand" from the name itself and the association with Faiz, but what does "jadeed" mean? ph34r.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 2 2006, 08:17 AM

QUOTE(nasir @ Aug 23 2006, 09:40 AM) *

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Aug 23 2006, 01:25 PM) *

Tapti hui rahon se tujhe anch na pahunche
deewane ke ashqon ki ghata saath liye jaa


Must be written by Sahir in melancholy moments and composed by
the MD in same mood, I think.

Identify which song these lines are taken from??
Describe the song if possible.



smile.gif These lines are from the heart wrenching song: BARBAADE MUHABBAT KI DUA SAATH LIYE JAA.
From LAILA MAJNU (1976) the comeback period of Rafi Sahaab. MD: Madan Mohan.

NASIR.


Nasir,

Thank you for the quick identification, that was right up your alley anyway... smile.gif However, please do elucidate on the song, would love to hear what you have to say. And please, no excuses about not being well versed in Urdu, I too am an Eng. Lit student armed with the online dictionary for Urdu to tackle the great Sahir... blink.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 2 2006, 08:43 AM

QUOTE(cinemaniac2 @ Aug 10 2006, 12:59 PM) *

BC-ur new avtaar- neither do u look like a bawla nor a chintu

u look like a experienced suave seducer.

and Mmuk-ur one side lat looks superb.

now back to business

Aaj Ki Raat Nahin shikwe shikayat ki raat
aaj har lamha mohabbat ke liye
reshmi.......
...........
...........
subah ne aaj na aane ki kasam khayi hai
aaj ki raat......



a top class suhaag raat song.

another SL classic


CM, glad you liked my lat wink.gif and sorry for the late response. Will get back with your song in just a few days. Thank you for your interest... smile.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 2 2006, 08:56 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Aug 7 2006, 04:44 PM) *

QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Aug 1 2006, 06:10 PM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 31 2006, 03:44 AM) *

Penned by the volatile, rebellious Sahir who always found himself in love in the wrong situations

I have my own view as to y that happened, and will write it some other time

QUOTE

She will not look at him…what a superb phrase used in the context of the erring lovers… “galat andaz nazron se”

The sheer beauty of this whole stanza is breathless, I rank this one much higher than the 3rd stanza, which is generally considered more popular.

QUOTE

Sahir as the eternally rejected lover-poet has given a "khoobsurat mod" to those incomplete stories and relationships in the form of his songs that have far outlived the films themselves.

WOW what a remarkable way to honour his work bow.gif Did u think of it just now, or is it a long processed thought? I have to say reading ur description of the songs seems as poetic as the songs themselves clap2.gif


Thanks Ash for the detailed response. Would really like to hear what your views are on Sahir's obsessions... By the way, I am sure you have read Kanchan Mehta's article on Amrita Pritam... Here is a quote from that article that I found very interesting:

I drew Imroz’s attention to Amrita’s relationships with other men mentioned in her writing. Was Amrita’s love for Sahir only a fancy? He shrugged and said, "Sahir was a seducer. He tempted and ensnared many eminent women". Amrita had a pure, deep and unflinching passion for Sahir. But, Sahir was only a weaver of dreams and could never go beyond that. He did not care for Amrita’s feelings for him. He never read her Sunheie (Message), originally composed for him.

Maybe a lover's bitter perception/criticism of a rival but inadvertantly reveals the tremendous attraction of that persona...

"Na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkhadaye meri baaton mein" ... that phrase is so immediate, palpable and emotive, and that stanza, you are right, literally leaves you breathless.


Ash,

Waiting for your response... smile.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 2 2006, 09:09 AM

QUOTE(zankib @ Aug 24 2006, 02:18 AM) *

the music for this song was arranged by jaidev.
barbaad-e-muhabbat sounds more jaidev-ish than
mm-ish. But this song also showed up on one of HMV's madan mohan
compilations. jaidev tried his level best to match the mood of master
madan mohan. tere dar pe aaya hoon is a pure madan compilation



Zankib,

Always enjoy your informed responses. Have not seen you in a while???

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 2 2006, 09:41 AM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Aug 11 2006, 02:34 AM) *


By the way, chintu is a very common address in Delhi. A word used to call
employees, subordinates, teammembers etc etc biggrin.gif ninja.gif



BC,

You are forgetting apna Bambaiyya Chintu, wo Bobby fame wala??? ohmy.gif

Posted by: bawlachintu Sep 2 2006, 10:08 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Sep 2 2006, 09:41 AM) *

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Aug 11 2006, 02:34 AM) *


By the way, chintu is a very common address in Delhi. A word used to call
employees, subordinates, teammembers etc etc biggrin.gif ninja.gif



BC,

You are forgetting apna Bambaiyya Chintu, wo Bobby fame wala??? ohmy.gif

biggrin.gif Who can?? forget the sweater/pullover king Rishi. wink.gif

Posted by: Nimii Sep 2 2006, 10:09 AM

QUOTE(Bhrung @ Aug 27 2006, 01:01 AM) *
QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Aug 8 2006, 03:35 AM) *


BC., I am pasting a useful article on this from the web:
QUOTE
Subject: What is Ghazal????
From: mzaidi@eden.rutgers.edu (LAHORI)




Madhavi, I am pasting Abhay Avchat's article, the one Zaidi refers to. In the modern era, Zaidi's views are a trifle outmoded. He would prefer to restrict the definition of a ghazal to the traditional 'ravani' ghazal. But the great ghazal writers of the twentieth century, Jigar, Faiz and many others have definitely and definitively expanded its perimeters to include 'tarakkipasand' and 'jadeed' ghazals. Anyway here's Avchat's basic article :

What is a Ghazal? : eBazm.comWhat is a Ghazal ?
Author : Abhay Avachat


Ghazal ! The word originates from arabic, meaning, "way or mannerism of talking
to or talking about women." Thus in fact it s an expression of love! But in this
ever changing world the ghazal has become a reflection of the life around us,
and now there is hardly any sphere of human interaction which the ghazal hasn't
touched.

To better understand the finer nuances of Urdu ghazal it is imperative to
understand the structure around which a ghazal is woven!

Classical Definition of Ghazal

Briefly stated Ghazal is a collection of Sher's which follow the rules of
'Matla', 'Maqta', 'Beher', 'Kaafiyaa' and 'Radif'. So to know what Ghazal is,
it's necessary to know what these terms mean.

To understand these terms easily , we will take an example.

1. koi ummid bar nahin aati
koi surat nazar nahin aati.

2. aage aati thi haale dil par hasi
ab kisi baat par nahin aati

3. hum wahan hain, jahan se humko bhi
kucch hamaari khabar nahin aati

4. kaabaa kis muh se jaaoge 'Ghalib'
sharm tumko magar nahin aati


What is a Sher ?
It's a poem of two lines. This definition is deceptively simple. Please note
that, every Sher is a poem in itself ! A Sher does not need, anything around it,
to convey the message. All the 4 stanzas in our example are independent poems,
Sher's.

So Ghazal is necessarily a collection of two-line-poems called Sher. [ So the
Rafi solo "rang aur noor ki baaraat kise pesh karu" is NOT a Ghazal, as every
stanza is of 3 lines, and not 2. ]

What are other restrictions ? Many, and important ones.
[ Any collection of Sher's is not Ghazal. Some good examples are ; the famous
Mukesh song from Yehoodi, "yeh mera deewaanaapan hai" ; and the title song of
"dil apana aur preet parayi". Each stanza in these songs can be considered as an
independent Sher, but they are NOT Ghazal's. To understand, why, we have to wait
till 'Kaafiyaa, 'Radif'. ]

What is 'Beher' ?
'Beher' is the 'meter' of the Sher's. It can be considered as the length of the
Sher. Both the lines in the Sher *MUST* be of same 'Beher'. And all the Sher's
in one Ghazal *MUST* be of the same 'Beher'. There are 19 (!!) kinds of 'Beher'.
But in simple terms, 'Beher' is categorized in 3 classes. Short, medium, long.

Small :
ahale dairo-haram reh gaye
tere deewane kam reh gaye
[ Also Talat song, "dil-e-nadan tuze hua kya hai" ]

Medium :
umr jalwo me basar ho, ye zaruri to nahin
har shab-e-gam ki seher ho, ye zaruri to nahin
[ And by Gulzar, "ruke ruke se kadam, ruk ke baar baar chale" ]

Long :
ai mere humnashin, chal kahin aur chal, is chaman me ab apanaa guzaaraa nahin
baat hoti gulon ki, to seh lete hum, ab to kaaton pe bhi haq hamaaraa nahin
[ The filmfare winner, "Manzile apani jagah hai" !! Yes ! It IS a Ghazal. And
the Shayar is Prakash Mehra !! surprise , surprise !! ]

So Ghazal is a collection of Sher's of SAME 'Beher'.


What is 'Radif' ?
In a Ghazal, second line of all the Sher's MUST end with the SAME word/s. This
repeating common words is the Radif' of the Ghazal. In our example, the 'Radif'
is "nahin aati". [ Sometimes, the Ghazal becomes known by its 'Radif'. eg.
"jaraa aahista chal" sung by Pankaj Udhas. On RMIM we all know one Ghazal by the
'Radif' as "aahista aahista", don't we ? or is it 2 or 3 ? :-)

What is 'Kaafiyaa' ?
'Kaafiyaa' is the rhyming pattern which all the words before 'Radif' MUST have.
In our example the 'Kaafiyaa' is "bar", "nazar", "par", "magar" etc. This is a
necessary requirement. Something which is followed even in the exceptions to all
these rules.

So Ghazal is a collection of Sher's of same 'Beher', ending in same 'Radif' and
having same 'Kaafiyaa'. [ That's the reason, why "yeh mera diwanapan hai" etc.
are NOT Ghazals. There is no common thing which can be called 'Kaafiyaa' and
'Radif'. ]

What is 'Matla' ?
The first Sher in the Ghazal *MUST* have 'Radif' in its both lines. This Sher is
called 'Matla' of the Ghazal and the Ghazal is usually known after its 'Matla'.
There can be more than one 'Matla' in a Ghazal. In such a case the second one is
called 'Matla-e-saani' or 'Husn-e-matla'. In our example, the first Sher is the
'Matla'.

What is 'Maqta' ?
A Shayar usually has an alias ie. 'takhallus' eg. Mirza Asadullakhan used
'Ghalib' as his 'takhallus' and is known by that. Other examples are 'Daag'
Dehlvi, 'Mir' Taqi Mir, Said 'Rahi', Ahmed 'Faraz' etc. There is a Sher in a
Ghazal, the last one, which has the Shayar's 'takhallus' in it. [ A Shayar, can
use the 'Maqta' very intelligently. He can "talk to himself" like one in our
example. I have lots of favourite Sher's which are 'Maqta' of some Ghazal. Some
gems are

koi nam-o-nishan puchhe to ai kaasid bataa denaa,
takhallus 'Daag' hai, aur aahiqon ke dil me rehte hai

and

jab bhi milte hain, to kehte hain, "kaise ho 'Shakil'",
iske aage to koi baat nahin hoti hai

The first one uses the meaning of the 'takhallus' to create the magic, and the
second one is just simple, simply beautiful. ]

To summarize, Ghazal is a collection of Sher's (independent two-line poems), in
which there is atleast one 'Matla', one 'Maqta' and all the Sher's are of same
'Beher' and have the same 'Kaafiyaa' and 'Radif'.




Bhrung ji thank you for this lengthy post describing what a ghazal is. Never knew the nuance of these terms like Kafiyaa, Radif, Maqta, Matla. Would love to read more such informative posts from you.

Thanks again,
N smile.gif

Posted by: Anupama Sep 5 2006, 07:59 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Sep 1 2006, 10:26 PM) *

For Anupama, two songs soaked in despair...

Here are the lines from "Raseedi Ticket" quoted by Anupama:

QUOTE
Amrita Pritam wrote in her autobiography - Raseedi Ticket :-
"I recall - many years ago when Sahir had come to Delhi, he invited me and Imroz to the hotel where he was staying. We were there for a couple of hours. Sahir had placed an order for whisky and there were three glasses on the table. We returned deep into the night.And when it was almost midnight - Sahir called me up saying : " There are still three glasses lying on the table, and by turn I am sipping from each of them, and writing '' These Empty Goblets Are My Companions." ( Mere Saathi Khaali Jaam )


Dooj ka Chand(1964): Roshan

Mehfil se uth jane walon tum logon par kya ilzaam
Tum abaad gharon ke baasi main awaara aur badnaam
Mere Saathi, mere saathi, mere saathi khaali jaam

Do din tumne pyar jataya, do din tumse mel raha
Aachha khasa waqt kata aur achha khasa khel raha
Ab us khel ka jikr hi kaisa, waqt kata aur khel tamaam
Mere saathi...

Tumne dhoondhi sukh ki daulat, maine pala gham ka rog
Kaise banta kaise nibhta ye rishta aur ye sanjog
Maine dil ko dil se tola tumne maange pyar ke daam
Mere Saathi ...

Tum duniya ko behtar samjhe main pagal tha khwaar hua
Tumko apnane nikla tha khud se bhi bezaar hua
Dekh liya ghar phoonk tamasha jaan liya apna anjaam
Mere saathi...


Bezaar: angry, disgusted, out of humor
Khar: angry, thistle/thorn,


Mehfil se uth jane walon... the sense of being suddenly abandoned, it is a very dramatic and visual beginning. The word "abaad" is suggestive of being peopled, flourishing, whereas the opposite of that would be "barbaad" which is not actually used in the song to describe the poet's situation. Instead the opposting term is "awaara" "badnaam" suggesting his disassociation from any social moorings...
The only companions he has are -and it is in the repetition and brilliant rendition of Rafi's "mere saathi, mere saathi, mere saathi...khali jaam", that the song really packs the emotional punch...and it is this word "Khaali" that finally opposes the earlier analogies of mehfil and abaad.

That emptiness seeps into the following stanzas. He rejects any sense of fulfilment in their relationship, it has been a futile time offering nothing, "waqt Kata aur khel tamam".
The opposing images that he chooses for the lover and the girl who left him are unique in that they do not form what I can only call parallel oppositions. In the same way as "abaad" is not pitted against "barbaad" in the second stanza, in response to"tumne dhoondhi sukh ki daulat" the poet is not saying he has chosen "pyar ki daulat" but uses the much more galling "maine pala gham ka rog" ... It is definitely not a positive emotion that he pits against his beloved's materialism... There is nothing heroic or defiant but something very dreary about this image, it is a sickness that he has nurtured...Only in the last line does he allow himself an accusation: "Maine dil ko dil se tola/tumne maange pyar ke daam" but in the next stanza the tone lapses back into despair.

A situation where the beloved has chosen someone else over the lover/poet and is obviously in a better position is often accusatory in tone but in this song the dominant emotion is that of exhausion. He agrees that she understood the world better, she is a survivor, he is the crazy one who ended up getting angry and disillusioned. The second line is an ironic look at himself, rare in disappointed lovers... "tumko apnane nikla tha khud se bhi bezaar hua" he was looking to support her in a relationship and has ended up alienated from himself. The self criticism continues, he has ended up with nothing, his "house" blown up into dust, becoming a mere spectacle of the moment and he knows where he is headed...

Now take a look at another song from a drunk lover once again in Rafi's magical voice(I cannot imagine any other singer singing this song)

Whereas the first song emerges out of personal disappointment at the breaking up of a relationship the self ananlysis, depairing though it is,still functions from within the parameters(social/material/emotional), drawn by society. The second song is much more nihilistic. Emerging out of the same situation, it goes on to incredible, iconoclastic denunciations, a coalesing of perhaps a lot of the questions and emotions that one feels/or might feel across the span of a lifetime, or some of those at least...


Vaasna (1968): Chitragupt

Aaj is darja pila do ke na kuch yaad rahe
Bekhudi itni badha do ke na kuch yaad rahe

Dosti kya hai wafa kya hai mohabbat kya hai
Dil ka kya mol ahsaas ki keemat kya hai
Hamne sab jaan liya hai ke haqeeqat kya hai
Aaj bas itni dua do ke na kuch yaad rahe

Muflisi dekhi ameeri ki ada dekh chuke
Gham ka mahaul mussarrat ki fiza dekh chuke
Kaise phirti hai zamane ki hawa dekh chuke
Shama yaadon ki bujha do ke na kuch yaad rahe
Aaj is darja...

Ishq bechain khayalon ke siwa kuch bhi nahin
Husn berooh ujalon ke siwa kuch bhi nahin
Zindagi chand sawalon ke siwa kuch bhi nahin
Har sawaal aise mita do ke na kuch yaad rahe
Aaj is darja...

Mit na payega jahan se kabhi nafrat ka rivaaz
Ho na payega kabhi rooh ke zakhmon ka ilaaz
SUltanat zulm khuda vahm museebat hai samaaj
Zehan ko aise sula do ke na kuch yaad rahe...


Musarrat: joy
Zehan: mind


Erasing memories...

He begins by attacking the three mainstays of human relationships...Dosti, wafa and mohabbat...He has realised what those concepts mean...just as he knows the truth about the value of the heart and the value of emotions.

In the second stanza, he rejects not just the lifestyle of the rich , but also that of the "muflis", an identity he sought to don in so many of his other poems, he has experienced both happiness and despair...and rejects both in the context how how fickle the mood of the world is vis-a vis both. In this poem too he uses repetition as a tool to drive home a point, in the first stanza he uses the word "Kya hai" to underscore his questioning, in the second stanza he uses the ironic "dekhi/dekh chuke".

The mood of the poem builds towards rejection of some of the most cherished subjects of his own poetry...

Love is nothing but restless imagination
Beauty is nothing but soulless light
Life is nothing beyond a few questions...

It is impossible to erase the culture of hatred in this world and impossible to cure the wounds of the soul... and finally moves to articulate some of his most iconoclastic metaphors in poetry...

Sultanat zulm, khuda vehm, museebat hai samaaj

And then ...
Let the mind sleep in such a way that the memories don't haunt...

Sahir has palpably moved away from the personal disappointment in love that the song begins with, moving to a sweeping rejection of everything that he has held dear uptil now. If the first poem is despairing, the poet disappointed in love coming face to face with the fact that his affair, his ideals and his life have been in vain, the second song is much vaster in scope, his personal disappointment quickly moving on to a rejection of all relationships, lifestyles, ideals and ideologies...The second poem is no less despairing but the scope of the despair is much wider, not just encompassing the poet and his life but all human endeavour...And yet the beauty and power of the poem lies in how personal he makes that rejection...

As I have not seen either of the films it would be useful to get some more information on how the songs were used in the films.


Madhavi, Very nice write up! True to a poet's feeling and so very beautifully expressed. Please accept my compliments and my heartfelt thanks. clap1.gif
You projected your thoughts in a similar strain as Sahir would. Denial,deprivation and depression are the characteristic notes of Sahir's drunken poetry. He is a poet always haunted by the thoughts of his beloved which makes him sad, lonely and miserable and then suffers from despair. Sahir, being sensitive, is all the time conscious of a void left in his heart. I wish Sahir had responded and reciprocated his love in the same manner as Amrita or any other woman ( Ishar Kaur,Mahendra Kaur Chaudhry, Aziza Mastoor, Sudha Malhotra, Lata Mangeshkar) did. His first and last love was his mother - perhaps that's why he couldn't bring any other woman in his life.

Attached Image


I think Sahir Ludhianvi has written maximum drunken songs and Mohd.Rafi sang these soaked- in-liquor songs better than any other singer without touching a drop of liquor in his life.Yes,you are very right in saying that we cannot imagine any other singer singing these songs. I only wish Sahir had not drowned himself to death. sad1.gif

His Sharabi songs :-
Aaj Iss Darja Pila Do - Vaasna 1968 - Chitragupta - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Maine Pi Sharab Tumne Kya Piya - Naya Raasta 1970 - N.Dutta - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Ab Woh Karam Kareein Ya Sitam - Marine Drive 1955 - N.Dutta - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Chhoo Lene Do Nazuk Honthon Ko - Kajal 1965 - Ravi - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Mehfil Se Uth Jaane Waalo - Dooj Ka Chaand 1964 - Roshan - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Yeh Koooche Yeh Nilaamghar Dilkashi Ke - Pyaasa 1957 - S.D.Burman - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Gham Iss Qadr Badhe Ke Main Ghabra Ke Pi Gaya - Pyaasa 1957 - S.D.Burman - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Zindagi Guzaarne Ko Saathi Ek Chahiye - Ek Mehal Ho Sapanon Ka 1975 - Ravi - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Yeh Zulf Agar Khul Ke Bikhar Jaaye Toh Achchha - Kajal 1965 - Ravi - Sahir Ludhianvi - Mohd.Rafi
Mile Jitni Bhi Sharab Main Toh Peeta Hoon - Sansaar 1971- Chitragupta - Sahir Ludhianvi - Kishore Kumar *
Masst Shaam Hai Haathon Mein Jaam Hai - Railway Platform 1955 - Madan Mohan - Asha Bhonsle & Batish*
Piye Ja Piye Ja Piye Ja, Aap Aaye Hain Nasihat Dene - Saavdhan 1954 - Vasant Ramchandra - Sahir Ludhianvi - Khan Mastana & Batish*
O Re O Sharabi Tujh Mein Ek Kharabi - Nanha Farishta 1969 - Kalyanji Anandji - Sahir Ludhianvi - Asha Bhonsle*
Jaam Thaam Le Sochte Hi Sochte Na Beete - Shehnshah 1953 - S.D.Burman - Sahir Ludhianvi - Shamshad Begum*
Jaam Le Jaam, Pakad Jaam Likh Di Hai - Chehre Pe Chehra 1980 - N.Dutta - Sahir Ludhianvi - Asha Bhonsle*

I don't have songs that are marked by *. If someone has these songs, please upload them. I'd really appreciate it.

Mile Jitni Bhi Sharab Main Toh Peeta Hoon
Rakhe Kaun Yeh Hisaab Main Toh Peeta Hoon

Ek Insaan Hoon, Farishta Nahin
Jo Farishta Bane Us Se Rishta Nahin
Kaho Achchha Ya Kharab Main Toh Peeta Hoon

Koi Apna Agar Ho Toh Toke Mujhe
Main Galat Kar Raha Hoon Toh Roke Mujhe
Kise Dena Hai Hisaab, Main Toh Peeta Hoon___Sahir Ludhianvi

Million thanks Madhavi! bow.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 6 2006, 05:30 AM

Anupama,

Always look forward to your detailed comments and your very interesting perceptions.


QUOTE
Mile Jitni Bhi Sharab Main Toh Peeta Hoon
Rakhe Kaun Yeh Hisaab Main Toh Peeta Hoon

Ek Insaan Hoon, Farishta Nahin
Jo Farishta Bane Us Se Rishta Nahin
Kaho Achchha Ya Kharab Main Toh Peeta Hoon

Koi Apna Agar Ho Toh Toke Mujhe
Main Galat Kar Raha Hoon Toh Roke Mujhe
Kise Dena Hai Hisaab, Main Toh Peeta Hoon___Sahir Ludhianvi



And yes, this quote/song seems so typically Sahir doesn't it, especially the personal response he seems to want out of the listener/reader/onlooker...

I do have this particular song, am uploading it...

Posted by: Anupama Sep 6 2006, 07:48 AM

Just love his devil-may-care attitude. cool.gif

Kise Dena Hai Hisaab, Main Toh Peeta Hoon

Thanks a lot for the upload Madhavi.Much appreciated. bow.gif

Posted by: sri Sep 6 2006, 09:11 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Sep 2 2006, 07:56 AM) *

For Anupama, two songs soaked in despair...

Dooj ka Chand(1964): Roshan
Mehfil se uth jane walon tum logon par kya ilzaam
Tum abaad gharon ke baasi main awaara aur badnaam
Mere Saathi, mere saathi, mere saathi khaali jaam


Vaasna (1968): Chitragupt
Aaj is darja pila do ke na kuch yaad rahe
Bekhudi itni badha do ke na kuch yaad rahe



Madhavi,

Just read your writings on these 2 well-chosen songs. Am lost for words in trying to express my admiration for your words !! Wonderfully written.......by a passionate and keen observer of Sahir's work......and with such eloquence !! Even a fundamentally 'tune and voice oriented' person like me - had to stop by and relish this piece about Sahir's lyrics !!

bow.gif bow.gif

Sri

Posted by: Talaikya Sep 6 2006, 09:29 AM

More of Ram than Jaam, but for whatever it's worth -
Courtesy Unni bow.gif
[attachmentid=77293]

Posted by: bawlachintu Sep 6 2006, 11:51 AM

QUOTE
Denial,deprivation and depression are the characteristic notes of Sahir's drunken poetry. He is a poet always haunted by the thoughts of his beloved which makes him sad, lonely and miserable and then suffers from despair.

????

QUOTE(Talaikya @ Sep 6 2006, 09:29 AM) *

More of Ram than Jaam, but for whatever it's worth -
Courtesy Unni bow.gif
[attachmentid=77293]

biggrin.gif

Ek ghazal hai Ghulam Ali ki gayi hui jisme hai

Mera Raam maikade mein.................. ninja.gif

Posted by: Anupama Sep 7 2006, 06:20 PM

Thanks a lot T. bow.gif I didn't have this song.

Heard the track - Mile Jitni Sharab

Kishore Kumar didn't do enough justice to the song. kaash yeh song Mohd.Rafi ne gaaya hota sad1.gif

Posted by: bawlachintu Sep 14 2006, 01:17 PM

Sansar se bhage firte ho,
Bhagwan ko tum kya paoge,
Is lok ko to apna na sake
Us lok mein bhi pachhtaoge


Chitralekha, the movie is remebered for sensational performances by
Meena Kumari and Ashok Kumar. Other good reasons are philosophical
lyrics of Sahir in "Man re too kahe na dheere dhare" and
"Sansar se bhage firte ho" composed equally well by Roshan. Perfect
blend of lyrics and music. Before we proceed towards analysis of lyrics, just
have a look over the definition of "sin"
-----------------------------------------------------------------

QUOTE

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Sin had its beginning with Lucifer, the “shining star, the son of the morning,” the most beautiful and powerful of the angels. Not content to be all this, he desired to be the most high God and that was his downfall and the beginning of sin (Isaiah 14:12-15). Renamed Satan, he brought sin to the human race in the Garden of Eden, where he tempted Adam and Eve with the same enticement, “you shall be like God.” Genesis 3 describes their rebellion against God and against His commandments. Since that time, sin has been passed down through all the generations of mankind and we, Adam’s descendants, have inherited sin from him. Romans 5:12 tells us that through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).

Through Adam, the inherent inclination to sin entered the human race and human beings became sinners by nature. When Adam sinned, his inner nature was transformed by his sin of rebellion, bringing to him spiritual death and depravity which would be passed on to all who came after him. Humans became sinners not because they sinned, they sinned because they were sinners. This is the condition known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful natures from Adam. King David lamented this condition of fallen human nature in Psalm 51:5: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

Another type of sin is known as imputed sin. Used in both financial and legal settings, the Greek word translated imputed means to take something that belongs to someone and credit it to another’s account. Before the Law of Moses was given, sin was not imputed to man, although men were still sinners because of inherited sin. After the Law was given, sins committed in violation of the Law were imputed (accounted) to them (Romans 5:13). Even before transgressions of the law were imputed to men, the ultimate penalty for sin (death) continued to reign (Romans 5:14). All humans, from Adam to Moses, were subject to death, not because of their sinful acts against the Mosaic Law (which they did not have), but because of their own inherited sinful nature. After Moses, humans were subject to death both because of inherited sin from Adam and imputed sin from violating the laws of God.

God used the principle of imputation to the benefit of mankind when He imputed the sin of believers to the account of Jesus Christ, who paid the penalty for that sin (death) on the cross. Imputing our sin to Jesus, God treated Him as if He were a sinner though He was not, and had Him die for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. It’s important to understand that sin was imputed to Him, but he did not inherit it from Adam. He bore the penalty for sin, but He never became a sinner. His pure and perfect nature was untouched by sin. He was treated as though He was guilty of all the sins ever committed by all who would ever believe, even though He committed none. In exchange, God imputed the righteousness of Christ to believers and credited our accounts with His righteousness just as He credited our sins to His account (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Personal sin is that which is committed every day by every human being. Because we have inherited a sin nature from Adam, we commit individual, personal sins – everything from seemingly innocent fibs to murder. Those who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ must pay the penalty for these personal sins, as well as inherited and imputed sin. However, believers have been freed from the eternal penalty of sin (hell and spiritual death). Now we can choose whether or not to commit personal sins because we have the power to resist sin through the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, sanctifying and convicting us of our sins when we do commit them (Romans 8:9-11). Once we confess our personal sins to God and ask forgiveness for them, we are restored to perfect fellowship and communion with Him. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

Inherited sin, imputed sin, and personal sin - all have been crucified on the cross of Jesus, and now “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).
source:http://www.gotquestions.org/definition-sin.html


Sahir fans, please expand the paragraph of the Lata song from Chitralekha.

Posted by: nasir Sep 14 2006, 10:31 PM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Sep 14 2006, 01:17 PM) *

Sansar se bhage firte ho,
Bhagwan ko tum kya paoge,
Is lok ko to apna na sake
Us lok mein bhi pachhtaoge


Chitralekha, the movie is remebered for sensational performances by
Meena Kumari and Ashok Kumar. Other good reasons are philosophical
lyrics of Sahir in "Man re too kahe na dheere dhare" and
"Sansar se bhage firte ho" composed equally well by Roshan. Perfect
blend of lyrics and music. Before we proceed towards analysis of lyrics, just
have a look over the definition of "sin"
-----------------------------------------------------------------
QUOTE

Sin is described in the Bible as transgression of the law of God (1 John 3:4) and rebellion against God (Deuteronomy 9:7; Joshua 1:18). Sin had its beginning with Lucifer, the “shining star, the son of the morning,” the most beautiful and powerful of the angels. Not content to be all this, he desired to be the most high God and that was his downfall and the beginning of sin (Isaiah 14:12-15). Renamed Satan, he brought sin to the human race in the Garden of Eden, where he tempted Adam and Eve with the same enticement, “you shall be like God.” Genesis 3 describes their rebellion against God and against His commandments. Since that time, sin has been passed down through all the generations of mankind and we, Adam’s descendants, have inherited sin from him. Romans 5:12 tells us that through Adam, sin entered the world and so death was passed on to all men because “the wages of sin is death” (Romans 6:23).

Through Adam, the inherent inclination to sin entered the human race and human beings became sinners by nature. When Adam sinned, his inner nature was transformed by his sin of rebellion, bringing to him spiritual death and depravity which would be passed on to all who came after him. Humans became sinners not because they sinned, they sinned because they were sinners. This is the condition known as inherited sin. Just as we inherit physical characteristics from our parents, we inherit our sinful natures from Adam. King David lamented this condition of fallen human nature in Psalm 51:5: “Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.”

Another type of sin is known as imputed sin. Used in both financial and legal settings, the Greek word translated imputed means to take something that belongs to someone and credit it to another’s account. Before the Law of Moses was given, sin was not imputed to man, although men were still sinners because of inherited sin. After the Law was given, sins committed in violation of the Law were imputed (accounted) to them (Romans 5:13). Even before transgressions of the law were imputed to men, the ultimate penalty for sin (death) continued to reign (Romans 5:14). All humans, from Adam to Moses, were subject to death, not because of their sinful acts against the Mosaic Law (which they did not have), but because of their own inherited sinful nature. After Moses, humans were subject to death both because of inherited sin from Adam and imputed sin from violating the laws of God.

God used the principle of imputation to the benefit of mankind when He imputed the sin of believers to the account of Jesus Christ, who paid the penalty for that sin (death) on the cross. Imputing our sin to Jesus, God treated Him as if He were a sinner though He was not, and had Him die for the sins of all who would ever believe in Him. It’s important to understand that sin was imputed to Him, but he did not inherit it from Adam. He bore the penalty for sin, but He never became a sinner. His pure and perfect nature was untouched by sin. He was treated as though He was guilty of all the sins ever committed by all who would ever believe, even though He committed none. In exchange, God imputed the righteousness of Christ to believers and credited our accounts with His righteousness just as He credited our sins to His account (2 Corinthians 5:21).

Personal sin is that which is committed every day by every human being. Because we have inherited a sin nature from Adam, we commit individual, personal sins – everything from seemingly innocent fibs to murder. Those who have not placed their faith in Jesus Christ must pay the penalty for these personal sins, as well as inherited and imputed sin. However, believers have been freed from the eternal penalty of sin (hell and spiritual death). Now we can choose whether or not to commit personal sins because we have the power to resist sin through the Holy Spirit who dwells within us, sanctifying and convicting us of our sins when we do commit them (Romans 8:9-11). Once we confess our personal sins to God and ask forgiveness for them, we are restored to perfect fellowship and communion with Him. “If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness” (1 John 1:9).

Inherited sin, imputed sin, and personal sin - all have been crucified on the cross of Jesus, and now “In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of His grace” (Ephesians 1:7).
source:http://www.gotquestions.org/definition-sin.html


Sahir fans, please expand the paragraph of the Lata song from Chitralekha.



Just want to say that the concept of original sin is Biblical no doubt. However, according to Islam the Prophets are infallible, i.e. they are not liable to sin since they are the chosen ones of God. As far as Adam and Eve are concerned, they were sent down to earth pursuant to their error and in fact remained separated from each other for centuries but finally were united to propagate the human race. The prophets from Adam onwards are the chosen ones and free from sin. Yes, this is the difference between the biblical and islamic concept of sin regarding the chosen ones.

NASIR.

Posted by: bawlachintu Sep 15 2006, 09:51 AM

Paragraph to bhool hi gaya, jisko discuss karna hai doh.gif

Ye bhog bhi ek tapasya hai
Tum tyaag ke maaron kya jano,

Apmaan rachaiyita ka hoga,
Rachna ko jo tum thukraoge

Posted by: ashgupta3 Sep 15 2006, 10:41 PM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Sep 15 2006, 09:51 AM) *

Paragraph to bhool hi gaya, jisko discuss karna hai doh.gif

Ye bhog bhi ek tapasya hai
Tum tyaag ke maaron kya jano,

Apmaan rachaiyita ka hoga,
Rachna ko jo tum thukraoge



I too would like to discuss this paragraph, infact both the songs that u mentioned from this movie. Im posting below the lyrics with the hope that it will entice tongue1.gif the owner of this thread to come up with her detailed analysis smile1.gif

Title : Sansar se bhaage phirte ho, Lata, Roshan
Sansar se bhaage phirte ho, bhagwaan to tum kya paaoge
is lok ko to apna na sake, us lok mei bhi pachtaaoge

ye paap hai kya ye punye hai kya, reeton par dharm ki mohren hain
har yug mei badalte dharmon ko, kaise aadarsh banaaoge

ye bhog bhi ek tapasya hai, tum tyaag ke maare kya jaano
apmaan rachaiyta ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraaoge

hum kehte hain ye jug apna hai, tum kehte ho jhoota sapna hai
hum janam bita kar jaayenge, tum janam gawa kar jaaoge

Title : Man re tu kaahe na dheer dhare, Rafi, Roshan
Man re tu kaahe na dheer dhare
woh nirmohi moh na jaane, jinka moh kare

is jeevan ki chadti dhalti, dhoop ko kisne baandha
rang pe kisne pehre daale, roop ko kisne baandha
kaahe ye jatan kare

utna hi upkaar samajh koi jitna saath nibha de
janam maran ka mail hai sapna, ye sapna bisra de
koi na sang mare


Posted by: ashgupta3 Sep 27 2006, 11:14 PM

Posting the lyric of another of my fav just to keep this thread alive

Movie:Ek mahal ho sapno ka, Singer : Lata, MD : Ravi

Dil mei kisi ke pyaar ka jalta hua diya
duniya ki aandhiyon se bhala ye bujhega kya

saanson ki aanch paa ke bhadakta rahega ye
seene mei dil ke saath dhadakta rahega ye
woh naksha kya hua jo mitaaye se mit gaya
woh dard kya hua jo dabaaye se dab gaya

Ye zindagi bhi kya hai amaanat unhi ki hai
ye shaayri bhi kya hai inaayat unhi ki hai
ab woh karam karen ki sitam unka faisla
humne to dil mei pyaar ka shola jala liya

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 28 2006, 04:35 AM

QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Sep 27 2006, 12:44 PM) *

Posting the lyric of another of my fav just to keep this thread alive

Movie:Ek mahal ho sapno ka, Singer : Lata, MD : Ravi

Dil mei kisi ke pyaar ka jalta hua diya



Ash and BC,

I have been busy of late, sorry. ninja.gif Will definitely get back in a couple of days... Thanks for keeping the thread alive... smile.gif

Posted by: bawlachintu Sep 28 2006, 09:08 AM

Dont forget to include philosophy of Rajneesh:" Life is a celebration"

Posted by: ashgupta3 Sep 28 2006, 10:30 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Sep 28 2006, 04:35 AM) *

QUOTE(ashgupta3 @ Sep 27 2006, 12:44 PM) *

Posting the lyric of another of my fav just to keep this thread alive

Movie:Ek mahal ho sapno ka, Singer : Lata, MD : Ravi

Dil mei kisi ke pyaar ka jalta hua diya



Ash and BC,

I have been busy of late, sorry. ninja.gif Will definitely get back in a couple of days... Thanks for keeping the thread alive... smile.gif

Madhavi,

No need to rush, do it only when u have free time. If u rush u may not enjoy ur writing that much and we dont want that to happen, so take ur time. I also have to answer a question on Sahir that u asked sometime back, but as u can tell Im in no hurry to answer it tongue1.gif Just kidding, will post my views hopefully sometime soon.


Posted by: bawlachintu Sep 30 2006, 09:09 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Sep 28 2006, 04:35 AM) *

BC,

I have been busy of late, sorry. ninja.gif Will definitely get back in a couple of days... Thanks for keeping the thread alive... smile.gif

No probs Madhavi. rolleyes.gif
sabar ka phal meetha hota hai wink.gif

Posted by: bawlachintu Mar 24 2007, 04:12 PM

Admin ji, is thread ko pin karenge ????

Posted by: bawlachintu Apr 1 2007, 11:46 AM

Ek gana Sahir ka idhar hai:

Kuchh bhi kar lo tumko ek din meri hona hoga

Duet by Kishore and Lata

Film: Joshila

http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=25493&view=findpost&p=357128

Posted by: bawlachintu May 16 2007, 07:37 PM

Ek aur Sahir ka gana idhar:-

Tum ko dekha to-Lata

Film: Deedar-e-yaar
Music: Laxmi Pyare


http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=27459&view=findpost&p=358697

Might be a rare occasion of Laxmi-Pyare appearing with Sahir in any film!!!

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 16 2007, 08:23 PM

Don't forget the superb Daag tracks... and the earlier "Yeh dil tum bin kahin lagta nahin main kya karoon"

Posted by: YaarMere May 16 2007, 08:44 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ May 16 2007, 03:53 PM) *

"Yeh dil tum bin kahin lagta nahin main kya karoon"


Rafi duet? If so, then its: "Yeh dil tum bin kahin lagta nahin hum kya kare" but, if no, then feel like a jackass right now.

Posted by: bawlachintu May 16 2007, 08:55 PM

QUOTE(YaarMere @ May 16 2007, 08:44 PM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ May 16 2007, 03:53 PM) *

"Yeh dil tum bin kahin lagta nahin main kya karoon"


Rafi duet? If so, then its: "Yeh dil tum bin kahin lagta nahin hum kya kare" but, if no, then feel like a jackass right now.

Typo errors do occur my friend. ph34r.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 16 2007, 09:02 PM

Okay touche... biggrin.gif

Sometimes typos need to be genuinely identified... sleep.gif

Posted by: bawlachintu May 16 2007, 09:10 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ May 16 2007, 08:23 PM) *

Don't forget the superb Daag tracks... and the earlier "Yeh dil tum bin kahin lagta nahin main kya karoon"

Thanks for reminding me of Daag tracks. rolleyes.gif


Posted by: mmuk2004 May 16 2007, 09:24 PM

Talking about Daag... and KK's siren call...

Mere dil mein aaj kya hai
Tu kahe to main batadun (2)
Teri zulf phir sawaroon
Teri Maang phir saja doon
Mere dil mein aaj kya hai


Mujhe devta banakar
teri chahaton ne pooja(2)
Mera pyar keh raha hai
main tujhe khuda bana doon
Mere dil mein aaj kya hai...

Koi dhoondne bhi aaye
To hamen na dhoond paaye(2)
Tu mujhe kahin chupa de
Main tujhe kahin chupa de...

Mere baazuon mein aakar
Tera dard chain paaye(2)
Tere gesuon mein chupkar
Main jahan ke gham bhula doon...

Teri zulf phir sawaroon
teri maang phir saja doon...


Promises and confessions...

Extreme, heady romance... the blend of passion...iconoclasm and the private space... the lover is literally creating his world where they are the worshipped and the worshippers...

The lover's tribute to the girl in the last stanza...combining physical and emotional fulfilment...

The intensely passionate private gesture of "teri zulf phir sawaroon"...and following it ..."teri maang phir sajaa doon" somehow changes the typically symbolic marital/social metaphor to a private promise...

And just in case anyone wants a quick refresher... . rolleyes.gif
LP-Daag(1973)-Mere Dil Mein Aaj Kya Hai(KK_Sahir).mp3
192 (Did not want to mess with the rip... hope this escapes the eye... ) blab.gif /4.14

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 4 2007, 11:30 AM

Jaaneman Tum Kamal Karti Ho
Trishul (1978)
MD: Khayyam


From heady private promises to breezy sophisticated "izhaar"...

Aaj hum ishq ka izhaar karen to kya ho(KK)
Jaan pehchan se inkaar karen to kya ho(LM)
Bhari mehfil mein tumhein pyar karen to kya ho(KK)
Koshishen aapki bekar karen to kya ho(LM)



Note how different the mukhda is from the antaras... begins in typical Khaiyyam style... the words and the mode remind one of the Pyaasa song... "hum aapki aankhon mein is dil ko basa dein to... " where both the male and the female tease each other positing questions as answers to questions... Bhari mehfil mein tumhein pyar karen to kya ho..." Kishore's voice is perfectly pitched with its teasing threat... encompassing the song which is daring the girl to admit to her emotions...and Lata's voice, dealing with it and the situation... perfectly controlled with her crystal cool diction is so beautifully appropriate...

Kehte darti ho dil mein marti ho
Janeman tum kamal karti ho


The attack is direct..."Kehte darti ho dil mein marti ho" ...and then couched in..."Jaaneman tum kamal karti ho..." A casual accusation turned on its head as a compliment... Sahir catches the colloquial phrase at its expressive best...

Aankhon aankhon mein muskurati ho
Baaton baaton mein dil lubhati ho
Narm saanson ki garm lehron se
Dil ke taaron ko gudgudati ho...
In sab baaton ka matlab poochen to
Rang chehre ka laal karti ho
Jaaneman tum kamal karti ho...


Chup bhi rahiye ye kya kayamat hai
Aap ki bhi ajeeb aadat hai
Itna hangama kis liye aakhir
Pyar hai ya koi museebat hai
Jab bhi milte ho jaane tum kya kya
Ulte seedhe sawaal karte ho
Jaaneman tum kamal karte ho



Sahir's uses a combination of formal Urdu and everyday phrases very comfortably... "ye kya kayamat hai" "ajeeb adadat" "itna hangama Kyun aakhir" "pyar hai ya koi museebat hai" 'ulte-seedhe sawaal". Love's vocabulary has expanded, it is more accessible, more mundane too...Remember, "Mohabbat bade Kaam Ki Cheez Hai" and "Yehi Ek Araam ki Cheez Hai" are from the same movie...

Mastiyan si faza pe chayi hain
Waadiyan rang mein nahayin hai
Narm sabz pe shokh phoolon ne
Makhmali chaderein bichayen hain
Chodo sharmana aise mausam mein
Tabiyat kyun nidhal karti ho...
Janeman tum kamal karti ho


The "faza" and the "waadiyan" are there too to support the lover ... The use of lush surroundings is brought in casually, finally as a kind of final push by the lover to get the girl to admit to her emotions..."Chhodo sharmana aise mausam mein..."


Jab bhi milte ho jaane tum kya kya
Ulte seedhe sawaal karte ho...
Janeman...


Sahir did not write much in the seventies, concentrating on a few films but in this decade he seems to be experimenting with stretching the boundaries his romantic poetry to include new moods and attitudes in newer expressions..."Gapoochi gapoochi gum gum kishichi kishichi kum kum/o sanam hum dono saath rahen janam janam... " might be considered as pushing it to rather extreme limits as far as the "poetic" izhaar of love is concerned, but it certainly caugnt the attention of the nation at the time... even when one does not remember the rest of the lyrics... I think everyone remembers the first shocker line of the song...(okay it was underscored by the fact that it introduced a nubile Poonam Dhillon sporting a bikini biggrin.gif ). Sahir seems much more at ease in the Jaaneman song...trying to express romance in the challenging, changing world of the Seventies...

KH-Trishul(1978)-Jaaneman Tum kamal(KL_Sahir).mp3
128/5.39

Posted by: anjvajay Jun 4 2007, 10:18 PM

Madhavi,
Pata nahin ki 'Theory' ke critics ka kitna asar raha hai. Lekin aapko padte huve mujhe 'Derrida' jase post-structuralist yaad aate hain. Text ko Deconstruct karke resha-resha udhedte jane ka wahi andaj... lekin yahan ye Deconstruction mostly positive hai.

Khair jo bhi ho aap ko padna hamesha ek behtar anubhav raha hai.
Ummid hai agali baar Sahir ke lyrics ki kuchh aur parten khulengi...

Posted by: dsk Jun 4 2007, 11:22 PM

The all time great hit written by Sahir sahab...
[b]Main Pal Do Pal Ka Shayar Hoon
Film - Kabhi Kabhie
Year - 1977
Lyricist - Sahir Ludhianvi
Musician - Khayyaam
Singer - Mukesh
Duration - 3.20 mins
Bitrate - 128kbps
Format - mp3

Download it biggrin.gif [/b]
[attachmentid=124622]

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 5 2007, 02:11 AM

Anjvajay,

You make me blush... blushf.gif Thank you for your encouragement... Derrida wale daudayen ya na daudayen... you have made my day. biggrin.gif

Seriously though, mujhe mainstream/popular cinema mein hamesha se interest raha hai and I do use (ulp...post-structuralist) cultural theories to justify that interest and make sense of my obsessions... smile.gif

Madhavi

Posted by: Talaikya Jun 6 2007, 12:46 AM

Well blush some more then Madhavi smile1.gif (Not that anything you said after that made any sense to me biggrin.gif) I am glad this thread is back in action. You really have a knack of fleshing out a song such that it takes on added hues. bow.gif

Posted by: HumTum Jun 6 2007, 10:59 AM

Sis, you should take up writing on a large scale. There is a whole of lot good reading audience out there on the net. Keep up the good work sis. biggrin.gif

Posted by: Hari Ram Jun 6 2007, 07:17 PM

Madhavi,

Here is one more reader.
Please post your writings more often.

Hari Ram

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 15 2007, 11:44 AM

T, HT and Hari Ram,

I did wallow in that appreciation... tongue1.gif . Thank you for your encouragement.


Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 15 2007, 11:45 AM

For Ash whose presence I miss and for BC who had requested a response to this particular song...

Sansaar Se Bhage Phirte Ho (Lata) and Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dhare (Rafi)
Chitralekha (1964)


First, some information about the novel by Bhagwati Charan Verma on whose book the movie was based. Could not confirm the dates but my guess is that it was published between 1933 and 1935. The novel is a period piece set in Chandragupta Maurya's time and, as BC had suggested in his quotation on sin, the novel is at one level a quest for finding out the meaning of sin. It is the story of two disciples of a sage who want to find out about Sin. The sage instead of giving them an answer sends them to the real world to find it out for themselves. One is left with a Samant (worldly life) and the other with a Yogi (ascetic life). The heroine Chitralekha intersects both worlds moving the story to its climax and by the end of the year both the disciples have different views on who the sinner was. Maybe the book sympathizes with one point of view over the other but it does hold out the possibilities of exploring how different contexts can change our perceptions drastically. (Have not read the novel, am extrapolating heavily from accounts of the novel).

Now a few words about the director of Chitralekha: Kidar Sharma, a director known for his original ideas, his superb lyrics and poetic sensibilities seems to have been quite taken up with the idea of Chitralekha. He bought the filming rights for it (read somewhere that Bhagwati Charan Verma was not too happy with the liberties Kidar Sharma took with the novel though)... and directed it in 1941 at the beginning of his career and then at the very end of his career in 1964, he attempted it again with big names (Meena Kumari and Pradeep Kumar), unfortunately the film flopped. Kidar Sharma very often wrote the dialogues for the films he directed and often wrote the lyrics too. (A digression but I found this fascinating...Kidar Sharma wrote the dialogues and lyrics of the Saigal version of Devdas("Dukh Ke Ab Din Beete Nahin" and "Balam Aayo Baso Mere Man Mein" The cameraman of this film was Bimal Roy who remade the classic inspired by Kidar Sharma's lyrics. Bimal Roys's Devdas had Sahir as the lyricist). I am not familiar with the songs of the earlier Chitralekha except for one famous track by Ramdulari "Tum Jao Jao Bhagwan Bane Phirte Ho" (lyrics by Kidar Sharma and music by Khan Sahab Jhande Khan). Apparently Kidar Sharma got all the songs (12) of this movie composed in Raag Bhairavi.

It is worth noting that Kidar Sharma deviated from the norm and chose to get Sahir to write the lyrics for his second production of Chitralekha and Sahir rose to the occasion to pen some of the most philosophical and yet tremendously popular songs for this film. At the heart of this beautifully composed album by Roshan (who had formed a productive partnership with both Kidar Sharma (Neki aur Badi, Bawre Nain) and Sahir(Babar, Barsaat Ki Raat, Dil Hi To Hai..) are the two golden solos by Lata and Rafi, “Sansaar Se Bhaage Phirte Ho” and “Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dhare”.

Very briefly the film is about a courtesan Chitralekha who is in love with a Samant (Pradeep Kumar) who is engaged to someone else. The father of the bride sends the ascetic (Ashok Kumar) to dissuade the Samant from falling “prey” to Chitralekha’s charms. In the film Chitralekha is impressed by the Sadhu and decides to become his disciple but is later disenchanted with him when she realizes that he himself lusts after her. (Am commenting entirely from very vague memories of the film seen on DD aeons ago…please correct me if I am wrong).



Sansar se bhaage phirte ho, bhagwaan to tum kya paaoge
Is lok ko to apna na sake, us lok mei bhi pachtaaoge

Ye paap hai kya ye punye hai kya, reeton par dharm ki mohren hain
Har yug mei badalte dharmon ko, kaise aadarsh banaaoge

Ye bhog bhi ek tapasya hai, tum tyaag ke maare kya jaano
Apmaan rachaiyta ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraaoge

Hum kehte hain ye jug apna hai, tum kehte ho jhoota sapna hai
Hum janam bita kar jaayenge, tum janam gawa kar jaaoge




In the contesting philosophies of “Bhog” and “tyaag”, here is Sahir taking the epicurean stance through the eloquent yet simple words of the courtesan. The woman is the epitome of what the ascetic life would consider sinful or evil. She lives a life of pleasure surrounded by wealth and glamour and indulges in all the pleasures of the flesh... The song is a statement of faith in epicurean philosophy and its extremely simple structure (hum and tum) and the counter pointing images that she uses make the ascetic philosophy of renunciation look barren and self centered.

Sansaar se “bhaage phirte” ho Bhagwaan ko tum kya “paoge”/Is lok ko bhi apna na sake us lok mein bhi pachtaoge… the pejorative phrase “bhaage phirte ho” sets the tone of the song … making the ascetic philosophy of renunciation look childishly self centered and escapist and thus grandiloquent in its claim to achieve Truth or God.

The next lines captures such her materialist philosophy so simply… to attempt to explain it any other way seems heavy handed… Sin and Redemption are temporal man made concepts given sanctity and authority by Religion, and yet when religions themselves are subject to time and change… how they can be viewed as ideal, absolute concepts…

She views “bhog” as a meditation too… “tum tyag ke mare kya jano” , to aesthetically appreciate the beauty of life and to accept it is also a way of paying homage to God. She has embraced life in its fullness while they have denounced it as “Maya” … she will leave it having “fulfilled” her life whereas they will leave it with a sense of loss.

Sahir is known for putting the most complex thoughts in the simplest of lines and this song a showcase for his mastery in this skill.

...will post "Man Re" in just a bit.

Posted by: Hari Ram Jun 15 2007, 06:34 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 15 2007, 01:15 AM) *

For Ash whose presence I miss…

Sansaar Se Bhage Phirte Ho (Lata) and Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dhare (Rafi)
Chitralekha (1964)



Sansar se bhaage phirte ho, bhagwaan to tum kya paaoge
Is lok ko to apna na sake, us lok mei bhi pachtaaoge

Ye paap hai kya ye punye hai kya, reeton par dharm ki mohren hain
Har yug mei badalte dharmon ko, kaise aadarsh banaaoge

Ye bhog bhi ek tapasya hai, tum tyaag ke maare kya jaano
Apmaan rachaiyta ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraaoge

Hum kehte hain ye jug apna hai, tum kehte ho jhoota sapna hai
Hum janam bita kar jaayenge, tum janam gawa kar jaaoge


In the contesting philosophies of “Bhog” and “tyaag”, here is Sahir taking the epicurean stance through the eloquent yet simple words of the courtesan. The woman is the epitome of what the ascetic life would consider sinful or evil. She lives a life of pleasure surrounded by wealth and glamour and indulges in all the pleasures of the flesh... The song is a statement of faith in epicurean philosophy and its extremely simple structure (hum and tum) and the counter pointing images that she uses make the ascetic philosophy of renunciation look barren and self centered.

Sansaar se “bhaage phirte” ho Bhagwaan ko tum kya “paoge”/Is lok ko bhi apna na sake us lok mein bhi pachtaoge… the pejorative phrase “bhaage phirte ho” sets the tone of the song … making the ascetic philosophy of renunciation look childishly self centered and escapist and thus grandiloquent in its claim to achieve Truth or God.

The next lines captures such her materialist philosophy so simply… to attempt to explain it any other way seems heavy handed… Sin and Redemption are temporal man made concepts given sanctity and authority by Religion, and yet when religions themselves are subject to time and change… how they can be viewed as ideal, absolute concepts…

She views “bhog” as a meditation too… “tum tyag ke mare kya jano” , to aesthetically appreciate the beauty of life and to accept it is also a way of paying homage to God. She has embraced life in its fullness while they have denounced it as “Maya” … she will leave it having “fulfilled” her life whereas they will leave it with a sense of loss.

Sahir is known for putting the most complex thoughts in the simplest of lines and this song a showcase for his mastery in this skill.

Madhavi,

Chitralekha is a great album.
When I think of Sahir, the first song that comes to my mind is 'sansaar se bhaage phirte ho'.
I feel, sensing the power of this poem, Roshan has produced an equally great song from it.
Your writings are a pleasure to read; thanks very much.

Hari Ram

Posted by: Anupama Jun 16 2007, 07:57 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 15 2007, 02:15 AM) *

For Ash whose presence I miss and for BC who had requesed a response to this particular song...

Sansaar Se Bhage Phirte Ho (Lata) and Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dhare (Rafi)
Chitralekha (1964)


First, some information about the novel by Bhagwati Charan Verma on whose book the movie was based. Could not confirm the dates but my guess is that it was published between 1933 and 1935. The novel is a period piece set in Chandragupta Maurya's time and, as BC had suggested in his quotation on sin, the novel is at one level a quest for finding out the meaning of sin. It is the story of two disciples of a sage who want to find out about Sin. The sage instead of giving them an answer sends them to the real world to find it out for themselves. One is left with a Samant (worldly life) and the other with a Yogi (ascetic life). The heroine Chitralekha intersects both worlds moving the story to its climax and by the end of the year both the disciples have different views on who the sinner was. Maybe the book sympathizes with one point of view over the other but it does hold out the possibilities of exploring how different contexts can change our perceptions drastically. (Have not read the novel, am extrapolating heavily from accounts of the novel).

Now a few words about the director of Chitralekha: Kidar Sharma, a director known for his original ideas, his superb lyrics and poetic sensibilities seems to have been quite taken up with the idea of Chitralekha. He bought the filming rights for it (read somewhere that Bhagwati Charan Verma was not too happy with the liberties Kidar Sharma took with the novel though)... and directed it in 1941 at the beginning of his career and then at the very end of his career in 1964, he attempted it again with big names (Meena Kumari and Pradeep Kumar), unfortunately the film flopped. Kidar Sharma very often wrote the dialogues for the films he directed and often wrote the lyrics too. (A digression but I found this fascinating...Kidar Sharma wrote the dialogues and lyrics of the Saigal version of Devdas("Dukh Ke Ab Din Beete Nahin" and "Balam Aayo Baso Mere Man Mein" The cameraman of this film was Bimal Roy who remade the classic inspired by Kidar Sharma's lyrics. Bimal Roys's Devdas had Sahir as the lyricist). I am not familiar with the songs of the earlier Chitralekha except for one famous track by Ramdulari "Tum Jao Jao Bhagwan Bane Phirte Ho" (lyrics by Kidar Sharma and music by Khan Sahab Jhande Khan). Apparently Kidar Sharma got all the songs (12) of this movie composed in Raag Bhairavi.

It is worth noting that Kidar Sharma deviated from the norm and chose to get Sahir to write the lyrics for his second production of Chitralekha and Sahir rose to the occasion to pen some of the most philosophical and yet tremendously popular songs for this film. At the heart of this beautifully composed album by Roshan (who had formed a productive partnership with both Kidar Sharma (Neki aur Badi, Bawre Nain) and Sahir(Babar, Barsaat Ki Raat, Dil Hi To Hai..) are the two golden solos by Lata and Rafi, “Sansaar Se Bhaage Phirte Ho” and “Man Re Tu Kahe Na Dheer Dhare”.

Very briefly the film is about a courtesan Chitralekha who is in love with a Samant (Pradeep Kumar) who is engaged to someone else. The father of the bride sends the ascetic (Ashok Kumar) to dissuade the Samant from falling “prey” to Chitralekha’s charms. In the film Chitralekha is impressed by the Sadhu and decides to become his disciple but is later disenchanted with him when she realizes that he himself lusts after her. (Am commenting entirely from very vague memories of the film seen on DD aeons ago…please correct me if I am wrong).



Sansar se bhaage phirte ho, bhagwaan to tum kya paaoge
Is lok ko to apna na sake, us lok mei bhi pachtaaoge

Ye paap hai kya ye punye hai kya, reeton par dharm ki mohren hain
Har yug mei badalte dharmon ko, kaise aadarsh banaaoge

Ye bhog bhi ek tapasya hai, tum tyaag ke maare kya jaano
Apmaan rachaiyta ka hoga, rachna ko agar thukraaoge

Hum kehte hain ye jug apna hai, tum kehte ho jhoota sapna hai
Hum janam bita kar jaayenge, tum janam gawa kar jaaoge




In the contesting philosophies of “Bhog” and “tyaag”, here is Sahir taking the epicurean stance through the eloquent yet simple words of the courtesan. The woman is the epitome of what the ascetic life would consider sinful or evil. She lives a life of pleasure surrounded by wealth and glamour and indulges in all the pleasures of the flesh... The song is a statement of faith in epicurean philosophy and its extremely simple structure (hum and tum) and the counter pointing images that she uses make the ascetic philosophy of renunciation look barren and self centered.

Sansaar se “bhaage phirte” ho Bhagwaan ko tum kya “paoge”/Is lok ko bhi apna na sake us lok mein bhi pachtaoge… the pejorative phrase “bhaage phirte ho” sets the tone of the song … making the ascetic philosophy of renunciation look childishly self centered and escapist and thus grandiloquent in its claim to achieve Truth or God.

The next lines captures such her materialist philosophy so simply… to attempt to explain it any other way seems heavy handed… Sin and Redemption are temporal man made concepts given sanctity and authority by Religion, and yet when religions themselves are subject to time and change… how they can be viewed as ideal, absolute concepts…

She views “bhog” as a meditation too… “tum tyag ke mare kya jano” , to aesthetically appreciate the beauty of life and to accept it is also a way of paying homage to God. She has embraced life in its fullness while they have denounced it as “Maya” … she will leave it having “fulfilled” her life whereas they will leave it with a sense of loss.

Sahir is known for putting the most complex thoughts in the simplest of lines and this song a showcase for his mastery in this skill.

...will post "Man Re" in just a bit.


Nice write-up, Madhavi, as usual. bow.gif


Read this:-

On November 11, the demolition men finally made sure that the last brick that held the bungalow built by the great poet, Sahir Ludhianvi was smashed to rubble. With it one more landmark was wiped off from the face of Mumbai, which Chief Minister Vilasrao Deshmukh dreams of turning into another Shanghai and is only too willing to destroy others’ dreams to realise his own.


Sahir’s bungalow was the place where he sat and wrote some of his immortal poems and lyrics. He had an entire bungalow to himself (he was a bachelor). But he spent his best time in a corner where he worked on his masterpieces. This was the bungalow which was visited by some of the all time great film makers like B R Chopra, Guru Dutt, Yash Chopra and music directors like S D Burman, Khayyam and N Dutta and singers like Lata Mangeshkar, Mohhamad Rafi, Mahendra Kapoor, Mukesh and Suman Kalyanpur who sat waiting for him to come up with the kind of poetry that only he could write. This was the bungalow he spent most of his time even after he had built his own apartment in Juhu called ‘Aashiyan,’ the name of the most popular collection of his poems and this was the bungalow where he returned home one evening and breathed his last.


Sahir’s bungalow has now become a part of history and in its place will come another monstrosity of a multi-storeyed building blocking the sea, which was one of Sahir’s major source of inspiration.



This demolition came just after the apartment he lived in at ‘Aashiyana’ was taken over by the society of the building because he had no heir. His most valuable collection of books and volumes of unpublished writings were sold to the raddiwala. All that lives on now are his poems in any number of books and his songs for films that will live forever.


All the best bungalows built by men who came to Mumbai with nothing are being demolished or converted into some place else one by one. The bungalow Kishore Kumar built which has stories that can go into one of the most interesting books, has been turned into a spa where there is a gym where reiki and other health related classes are held.

Padmashri Rajinder Singh Bedi had his own bungalow in Matunga in Central Mumbai. He sold it when he made up with his son, director Narendra Bedi and shifted to his son’s own bungalow on Mumbai’s famous Linking Road. His son died suddenly and Bedi saab who couldn’t take the shock followed him soon after. The bungalow has now been razed to the ground for a posh executive club to stand in its place.

The palatial home Manoj Kumar built has vanished from the map of Juhu. Mr Bharat
(Manoj) now lives in an apartment while a huge complex is coming up in a great hurry.


The sprawling bungalow of the late film maker Pramod Chakravorty was nowhere just three months after his death. He had plans to convert the same bungalow into a better bungalow to be named after his wife, Lakshmi, but his dream died with him and in the place of his bungalow, a bungalow built by a man who was once just a typist is now being built.


The bungalow the late Sunil Dutt and Nargis Dutt built at a cost of just Rs 8 lakh almost 50 years ago has made way for twin towers called Imperial Heights. Their children, Sanjay Dutt, Priya and her husband, Owen, Namrata and her husband, one time actor Kumar Gaurav and their children live in different apartments in these towers.


Dimple Kapadia who was born and brought up at Samudra Mahal, a palace facing the sea at Juhu, has shifted to her own apartment in Vastu, while Samudra Mahal stands like a haunted palace, with estate agents eyeing it like vultures.


Dimple’s estranged husband Rajesh Khanna’s bungalow ‘Aashirwad’ on Carter Road in Bandra, facing the sea, where thousands once thronged every day to seek the aashirwad, of the once upon a time superstar, is one of the most haunted homes today. The ex-superstar occupies one corner of his own bungalow which is in a mess in many ways.


The original underground bungalow of Jitendra on the posh Pali Hill is a home of the past for the family, who have now shifted into a virtual Buckhingham Palace like bungalow in Juhu. Only recently there was talk about the bungalow of the greatest ever Indian showman, Raj Kapoor’s famed bungalow going up for sale, but his sons immediately smashed the rumour.


The bungalow Dilip Kumar built on Pali Hill now has only one man living there, his younger brother, Ehsaan Khan. The legendary actor has been living in the sprawling mansion of his wife, Saira Banu and visits his own bungalow once in a way. The bungalows of the veteran actor, Pran, actors Vinod Mehra and Ranjit and Hrishikesh Mukherjee, the veteran director who died recently were brought down some years ago.


The only bungalows that still stand in all their splendour are the bungalows of Dr B R Chopra, his brother, Dr Yash Chopra, the brothers Feroz Khan and Sanjay Khan, the two bungalows of Amitabh Bachchan, Rekha, Hema Malini, Rishi Kapoor, Shakti Samantha, Dharmendra and Shahrukh Khan, the only star of the new generation to have a massive bungalow called `Mannat’ at the Lands End in Bandra. All the other stars are or seem to be satisfied with their apartments in all the high rises which have come up all over for reasons of security and to maintain their privacy, according to them.


Tourists and visitors from outside who have always had a peep at the bungalows of stars and other celebrities, will miss some of these bungalows which have vanished. And I wonder if there will be any more bungalows if Vilasrao’s dream of changing Mumbai to Shanghai comes true.

http://content.msn.co.in/Entertainment/Bollywood/Bollywood_MovieTalkies_151106_312.htm#top

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I was extremely upset & shocked to read this.

Raddiwala? ohmy.gif

If, by any chance anyone happens to come across this RADDIWAALA please let me know.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 16 2007, 11:17 AM

QUOTE
Chitralekha is a great album.
When I think of Sahir, the first song that comes to my mind is 'sansaar se bhaage phirte ho'.
I feel, sensing the power of this poem, Roshan has produced an equally great song from it.


Hari Ram,

I wish someone would elucidate on the music of these songs too... I am very shaky when it comes to understanding the nuances of classical music, or any music for that matter basically depending on my untrained ear and a passion for music... If someone could talk about the musical composition of the songs alongside the analysis it would present a much more complete picture. If you have any sort of knowledge of classical music, please please elucidate... (e.g. how did Roshan bring out the mood of the song...is it based on any specific raga etc... and I also wondered why Kidar Sharma chose Raag Bhairavi for all the twelve songs for his previous version of Chitralekha...

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 16 2007, 11:24 AM

QUOTE
This demolition came just after the apartment he lived in at ‘Aashiyana’ was taken over by the society of the building because he had no heir. His most valuable collection of books and volumes of unpublished writings were sold to the raddiwala. All that lives on now are his poems in any number of books and his songs for films that will live forever.


Anupama,

Thank you for the article... had no idea about this... sad indeed. While one realises that change does occur and it is with a sense of loss and sadness that we see older things pass away... what is really more upsetting it the kind of utter callousness with which we treat our national figures... I almost cannot believe the raddiwala story... It seems like a wierd replay of Pyaasa... sad.gif I cannot believe that people just let go of Sahir's unpubished works in such a crass fashion... it seems surreal!!!

Posted by: Hari Ram Jun 16 2007, 05:27 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jun 16 2007, 12:47 AM) *


Hari Ram,

I wish someone would elucidate on the music of these songs too... I am very shaky when it comes to understanding the nuances of classical music, or any music for that matter basically depending on my untrained ear and a passion for music... If someone could talk about the musical composition of the songs alongside the analysis it would present a much more complete picture. If you have any sort of knowledge of classical music, please please elucidate... (e.g. how did Roshan bring out the mood of the song...is it based on any specific raga etc... and I also wondered why Kidar Sharma chose Raag Bhairavi for all the twelve songs for his previous version of Chitralekha...

Madhavi,

I have a common man's approach to music appreciation.
For me, any music that makes a good listening and that never get bored of listening is good music. The Chitralekha song is well above these criteria. I too would be interested if someone would enlighten us on the music compositions of Chitralekha; perhaps, Mandrake?

Very saddened to hear the fate of Sahir's bugalow in Anupama's post. BTW, what is meant by 'Raddiwala'?

Hari Ram

Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 16 2007, 06:20 PM

QUOTE
BTW, what is meant by 'Raddiwala'?


Raddiwalas are guys who go door to door buying old newpapers and magazines... smile.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 1 2007, 04:31 AM

Kabhi Kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai...

I went back to Kabhi Kabhi after such a long time impelled by a random, definitive rejection of the film at a party..."What an a-jhel movie"...

Yes, the movie is quite melodramatic at times, especially in the last fire scene, yes, Shashi Kapoor as Rakhee's genial, liberal, large-hearted husband seems too hearty at times, and his inviting his son to a drink in front of his disapproving wife does not seem particularly hip now, and Amitabh Bachchan does not seem so awesomely handsome in his fur-lined jacket, and alas, superimposed on Rishi Kapoor's youthful flair in "pyar kar liya to kya/pyar hai gila nahin/teri meri umar mein/kisne ye kiya nahin" is my recent mental image of an ageing star with bags under his eyes... And yes, apart from suhaag raats themselves being passe, a suhaag raat where the husband asks his wife to read a poem by an ex-lover does not strike one as being the height of tragic irony.

And yet...have a little patience with the movie, as you have to, with a lot of older hindi films, and you can be rewarded with so many surprising insights and many radical and complex ideas that many of today's film tend to lose track of in their super slick presentations.

The movie is literally centered around this song... it expresses itself as a longing, a desire, a bitterness, a regret and all these are subtlely woven together to create the word love. The movie deals with many kinds of love, and to its credit, imbues it with a richness and complexity rarely seen in hindi films. The love between Rakhee and Amitabh is compared and contrasted to so many other kinds of love, cutting across generations and across relationships. In the older generation there is the love between Rakhi and Shashi Kapoor, between Waheeda and her fiance, amongst the younger generation, there is the love between Rishi and Neetu and the infatuation of the young and slightly spoilt Pinky for Rishi which Rishi exploits a little cruelly to get back at Neetu. There is also the relationship between Shashi and Rishi, between Amitabh and Pinky, between Neetu and her adopted parents and the tentative, delicate one between her and Waheeda. All these complex relationships are finely textured and interwoven into the film which is framed in the opening sequence of the developing attraction between Rakhee and Amitabh and finds its closure in the tentative developing relationship between Waheeda and Amitabh.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 1 2007, 04:32 AM

To come back to the poem/song...

There are three versions of the poem. The original, darker and more difficult urdu version by Sahir in Talkhiyan, the less difficult and less bitter version of the original that Amitabh recites in the movie when Rakhi is married off to Shashi Kapoor and the more romantic version by Mukesh when the lovers, Rakhee and Amitabh, are shown romancing amidst gorgeous locales. The romantic version is sung again by Lata interspersed by some lines by Mukesh, when she sings it to Shashi Kapoor on their wedding night.

The original poem from Talkhiyan
(with the meanings of difficult words in brackets in the poem itself)

Kabhi Kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai
Ke zindagi teri zulfon ki narm chaon mein
Guzarne pati to shadaab(pleasant) ho bhi sakti thi
ye teergi(darkness) jo meri zeest(life) ka muqaddar hai
teri nazar ki shuaaon(brighness) mein kho bhi sakti thi

Ajab na tha ke main begaana-e-alam(stranger to the world) ho kar
Teri jamaal(beauty) ke ranaaiyon(elegance) mein kho rehta
tera gudaaz(tender) badan teri neembaaz(half-open) aankhen
Inhee haseen fasaanon mein mahv(drowned) ho rehta

Pukarti mujhe jab talkhiyaan(bitternesses) zamaane ki
Tere labon se halaavat(sweetness) ke ghoont pee leta
Hayaat(life) cheekhti phirti barhanaa(naked) sar aur main
Ghaneri zulfon ke saaye mein chhup ke jee leta

Magar ye ho na saka aur ab ye aalam hai
Ke tu nahin, tera gham, teri justjoo bhi nahin
Guzar rahi hai kuch is tarah zindagi jaise
Ise kisi ke sahaare ki arzoo bhi nahin

Zamane bhar ke dukhon ko laga chuka hun gale
Guzar raha hun kuch anjaani rahguzaaron se
Muheeb(dreadful) saaye meri samt(towards) badhte aate hain
Hayaat-o-maut(life and death) ki purhaul(deceitfully) khaarzaaron(a place full of thorns) se

Na koi jadaa(road), na manzil, na roshni ka suraag
Bhatak rahi hai khalaaon(darkness) mein zindagi meri
Inhi khalaaon mein rah jaoonga kabhi kho kar
Main jaanta hoon meri hamnafas(companion) magar yun hi
Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayaal aata hai...



Amitabh's rendition for the movie (simplified version)
(after Rakhee gets married to Shashi Kapoor)

Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai
Ke zindagi tere zulfon ke narm chaon mein guzarne pati
To shadaab(pleasant) ho bhi sakti thi
Ye ran-jo-gham ki siyahi jo dil pe chaayi hai
Teri nazar ke shuaaon(brightness) mein kho bhi sakti thi

Magar ye ho na saka, magar ye ho na saka
Aur ab ye aalam hai
ke tu nahin, tera gham, teri justjoo bhi nahin
Guzar rahi hai zindagi aise
Ke ise kisi ke sahare ki arzoo bhi nahin

Na koi raah, na manzil, na roshni ka suraag
Bhatak rahi hai andheron mein zindagi meri
Inhi andheron main reh jaoonga kabhi khokar
Main janta hoon meri hamnafaz magar yunhi
Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai...


Mukesh/Lata Romantic version

Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai
Ke jaise tujhko banaya gaya hai mere liye
Tu abse pehle sitaron mein bas rahi thi kahin
Tujhe zameen pe bulaya gaya hai mere liye

Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai
Ke ye badan ye nigahen meri amaanat hain
Ye gesuon ki ghani chaon hai meri khatir
Ye honth aur ye baahen meri amaanat hain

Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai
Ke jaise bajti hain shehnayiyan si raahon mein
Suhaag raat hai ghunghat utha raha hoon main...
Simat rahi hai tu sharma ke apni bahon mein...

Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai
Ke jaise tu mujhe chahegi umar bhar yun hi
Uthegi meri taraf pyar ki nazar yunhi
Main janta hoon ke tu gair hai magar yunhi...(2)
Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai...


Posted by: mmuk2004 Sep 1 2007, 04:32 AM

Sahir fans sometimes see the changes in the original version as a selling out to the commercial demands of Bollywood. Sahir has, they further argue, much better nazms to his credit, and this one gets undue attention because it is rendered in Amitabh's mesmerizing baritone. I don't think in the arguments the romantic one even gets the minimal attention it deserves at least as a counterpoint to, or even as an extension of, the bitter version of the song.

To deal with the first two versions first... I am attempting a comment on the original version of "Talkhiyan" without doing much reference on the composition of the nazm itself, so it is open to corrections and additions. The persona in the original nazm is surrounded in stupefying and frightening darkness, and from there he remembers with regret that his life might have been different if he had let himself adore his beloved and had allowed himself to be protected from harsh reality in the brighness of her company. He might have avoided the screams of naked reality, he asserts, hiding behind her beautiful tresses. But it was not possible.... and he has embraced much of the sadness of the world and now that she is not there in his life, he does not even feel the tragedy of her loss, or the desire for her... life is frighteningly bare and dark and yet, lost in that barrenness he sometimes remembers...

Amitabh's version does not refer to the original poem's more complex perception of the romantic space. The original poem refers to the romantic space too as escapist and an evasion of reality and the irony of his situation lies in the fact that rejecting that for the real world has pushed him into further, illusory darkness. The film version is simpler, it remains at the level of a desire for the beloved which is not allowed to the hero and hence the bitterness, the rejection of those memories and the slide into darkness and denial. While this rendition does not yield the complexity of the original version, it is tailored to the demands of the character of Amitabh and furthermore to the story of the film.

The song belongs to the fleshed out story of the film. It is about a sensitive poet, who can sing lines such as "main pal do pal ka shayar hoon", it is about a passionate romance that does not culminate in marriage, changing the poet's career. He becomes much more cynical, more involved in succeeding in the world as a rich businessman, and he too gets married to a girl his parents have chosen for him and he has a daughter with her who he adores. But the film is not just his story, it is the story of Rakhee too, she was in love with Amitabh but she gets married to Shashi, a well-to-do businessman who adores her but cannot compose poetry to save his live. She falls in love with her easy-going and adoring husband and they have a son who they love. It is also the story of Waheeda, who was in love with her fiance and has an illegitimate child who she is forced to give away for adoption, before she gets married to Amitabh, an aspect of her life about which Amitabh is totally unaware. It is also the story of two young, carefree lovers, Rishi and Neetu who decide to marry with no clouds in sight until the girl realises that she is adopted and unaccountably wants to find out about her real mother. And she does that in the face of a great deal of opposition, she hurts her adopted parents who cannot understand why she needs to do that, her fiance is upset that she needs to leave the loving protection of her adopted parents to disrupt the life of another household. And disrupt it she does, she arrives at Waheeda and Amitabh's house, a surprise and unwanted guest after having fought with her fiance. Rishi, follows her to the place and creates another confusion when Amitabh and Waheeda's daughter, Pinky falls for him, and who he uses as a bait to annoy Neetu and to stay on in the house. And it is at this point that all the stories come to a head. For Amit, so passionate towards Rakhee and so cold towards his wife it is a journey of discovery. I find it amazing that Yash Chopra could give such negative overtones to Amitabh's character, in a commercial set up where playing negative characters is certainly not the norm. Amitabh's behaviour towards his wife is mean compared to Shashi's reaction and it is definitely underlined in the film. And kudos to Amitabh for playing it in a low-key fashion rather than with aplomb.

And to come back one more time to the song, it is not the bitter song in the movie that reminds one of the complexity of love...it is the romantic song... the passionate song of the lover...

"Kabhi kabhi mere dil mein khayal aata hai
Ke jaise tujhko banaya gaya hai mere liye
Ye gesuon ki ghani chhaon hai meri khatir
Ye honth aur ye bahen meri amaanat hain...


So passionate, so confident in asserting that his beloved has been made for the sole purpose of being in love with him.

"Tu abse pehle sitaron mein bas rahi thi kahin
Tujhe zamin pe bulaya gaya hai mere liye..."


Beautiful, exaggerated lines underscoring the intensity and passion of their love and the perfection of their relationship. And yet, the twist at the end of the song gives it a completely different mood.... "Main janta hoon ke tu gair hai magar yun hi..." It does not shatter the previous passionate assertions of the song with bitter irony, itstead it imbues it with an intense regret, as a moment that remains unfulfilled... In the film, the bitterness of Amitabh's position as the unfulfilled lover is not the final solution, it is more a coming to terms with life's uncertainties in unpredictable ways and affirming the complexities of other relationships. The film is about moving on, about keeping the faith of other relationships and yet does not negate the emotion of the passionate lovers...through the song, it takes a look back into older, forbidden passions with a wonderful line "Main janta hoon ki tu gair hai magar yunhi..."

Posted by: anjvajay Sep 1 2007, 05:33 AM

Madhavi,
Mujhe Susan Sontag yaad aa rahin hain...

Aur 'Chakle' ka adaptation yaad aa raha hai...

Posted by: mmuk2004 Oct 13 2007, 03:45 AM

QUOTE

Aur 'Chakle' ka adaptation yaad aa raha hai...


Ajay, shayad aap ya Anu, ya koi aur Sahir stalwart bata sakenge "Mataa-e-Ghair" ka publication date. As usual there is very little information available online on the nazm. I have included the meanings of some of the words that I found tough to understand (available online)

Mataa-e-Ghair(Someone else's property)

Mere khwabon ke jharokhon ko sajane wali
Tere khwabon mein kahin mera guzar hai ke nahin
Poochkar apni nigahon se bata de mujhko
Meri raton ke muqaddar mein sehar(dawn ) hai ke nahin

Char din ki ye rafaaqat(company ) jo rafaaqat bhi nahin
Umr bhar ke liye azaar(illness ) hui jaati hai
Zindagi yun to hamesha se pareshan si thi
Ab to har sans giranbaar(unbearable ) hui jaati hai

Meri ujadi hui neendon ke shabistanon(place to pass the night ) mein
Tu kisi khwaab ke paikar(form ) ki tarah ayee hai
Kabhi apni si, kabhi ghair nazar aati hai
Kabhi ikhlaas(sincerity) ki moorat, kabhi harjai hai

Pyar par bas to nahin hai mera, lekin phir bhi
Tu bada de ke tujhe pyar karoon ya na karoon
TUne khud apne tabassum(smile) se jagaya hai jinhen
Un tammannaon kaa izhaar karoon ya na karoon

TU kisi aur ke daman ki kali hai lekin
Meri raatein teri khushboo se basi rehti hain
Tu kahin bhi ho tere phool se aariz(cheeks) ki kasam
Teri palkein meri aankhon pe jhuki rehti hain

Tere haathon ki haraarat(warmth), tere saanson ki mehak
Tairti rehti hai ehsaas ki pahnai(clothing) mein
Dhoondhi rehti hain takhayeel(imagination) ki bahein tujhko
Sard raaton ki sulagti hui tanhai mein

Tera altaaf-o-karam(favors and kindness) ek haqueeqat hai magar
Ye haqeeqat bhi haqeeqat main fasana hi na ho
Teri maanoos(intimate) nigahein ka ye mohtaat(guarded) payaam
Dil ke khoon karne ka ek aur bahana hi na ho

Kaun jane mere imroz(today) ka farda(tomorrow) kya hai
Qurbatein(closeness) badhke pashemaan(ashamed) bhi ho jati hain
Dil ke daman se lipati hui rangeen nazrein
Dekhte dekhte, anjaan bhi ho jaati hain

Meri darmaanda(helpless) jawani ki tamannaon ki
Muzmahil(exhausted) khwaab ki taabeer(result) bata de mujhko
Tere daaman mein gulistaan bhi hain, veraane bhi
Mera haasil, meri taqdeer bata de mujhko.




Sone Ki Chidiya(1960): Talat version:

Pyar pe bas to nahi to hai mera lekin phir bhi
Tu bata de ke tujhe pyar karoon ya na karoon

Mere khwabon ke jharokhon ko sajane wali(2)
Tere khwabon mein kahin mera guzar hai ke nahin
Pooch kar apni nigahon se bata de mujhko
Mere raaton ke muqaddar mein sehar ke nahin
Pyar pe bas to nahin hai ...

Kahin aisa na ho paon mere tharra jayen(2)
Aur teri marmari baahon ka sahara na milen
Ashk behte rahen khamosh siyah raaton mein
Aur tere reshmi aanchal ka kinara na mile...
Pyar par bas to nahin hai...



Sone Ki Chidiya(1960): Asha version

Pyar par bas to nahin hai mera lekin phir bhi
Tu bata de ke tujhe pyar karoon ya na karun
Pyar par bas...

Tune khud apni nigahon se jagaya tha jinhen(2)
Un tamannaon ka izhaar karun ya na karun
Tune jis dil ko bade pyar se apnaya tha(2)
Usko shikwon ka gunahgaar karoon ya na karoon(2)
Pyar par bas to...

Jis tamanna ke sahare pe thi jeene ki ummeed(2)
Wo tammanna bhi pasheman(ashamed) hui jaati hai
Zindagi yun to hamesha se pareshaan si thi(2)
Ab to kuch aur bhi veeran hui jaati hai(2)
Pyar par bas to...

Posted by: mmuk2004 Oct 13 2007, 03:49 AM

Once again, Sahir spins his mesmeric words and emotions around unrequited love in this nazm. He brings a vulnerability to it that is poignant, as the lover seems to be in the very process of tentatively, urgently, questioning his mistress about her emotions even while the title sets that relationship in an ironic context as already doomed to failure. The nazm begins with such beautiful romantic lines, "Mere khwabon ke jharokhon ko sajane wali" and yet it is full of images of dread, of the fear that the emotions and promises that he hopes for, will slip away from him. "Pyar pe bas to nahin hai mera lekin/Tu bata de ke main tujhe pyar karoon ya na karoon" captures his vulnerability, in the throes of of his emotions, he is aware that he has no control over them and yet, inevitably, looks for some certainty from the very person who might take it away from him.

The nazm is reworked in Sone Ki Chidiya(1960) as tandem songs of two stanzas each, sung by Talat and Asha. Have not seen the movie, but considering it features Nutan and Balraj Sahni in the lead roles with Talat himself sporting an appearance, it should be interesting to watch. From what I could glean from the blurb, the story is about Nutan (the "sone ki chidiya") who is exploited by her family when she gets a chance to become a famous actress. She falls for her co-star (Talat!) who, she later comes to realise, is also mainly interested in exploiting her. Finally, she does find happiness with Balraj Sahni (a poet...what else can he be biggrin.gif ) who makes her realise that there is more to human relationships than those based on greed. The story is by Ismat Chugtai, in fact she produced the film.

I am assuming the Talat rendition is the romantic version, so the nazm is tamed to the romantic situation of the film. Sahir changes the order of the lines beginning with the lines "Pyar pe bas to nahin mera lekin", not really out of line with innumerable hindi film song situations where the man wonders whether his love is returned or not. Sahir retained the beautiful first stanza of the nazm intact for the song, and in the second stanza compressed the darker, multiple images of dread of his original nazm to basically a couple of lines:"kahin aisa na ho paon mere tharra jayen" and "Ashk behte rahen khamosh siyah raaton mein". The image (khamosh siyah raaton mein) in the last line does counterpoint the question posed in the earlier stanza: "Mere raaton ke muqaddar mein sehar hai ke nahin." While the song is, naturally, not as complexly wrought as the original nazm (not by a long shot), one cannot help enjoying the melancholy melody of Talat's voice, and savoring the beautiful lines penned by Sahir, for the sheer beauty of the words. OPN has not added much orchestration, (Talat's voice would get completely drowned competing with the instruments) and it sounds so ... beautifully hushed.

I prefer Talat's rendition over Asha's but that is really a matter of personal preference. The Asha version is much more interesting in terms of how Sahir reworked the nazm. Apart from the two main lines, "Pyar bar bas to nahin hai mera lekin/Tu bata de ke tujhe pyar karun ya na karun" the words are completely different from the nazm. It is rendered by a woman who has been abandoned by her lover and the nazm is now styled as a complaint/accusation referring to past promises that have not been fulfilled and the question"Tu bata de ke main tujhe pyar karoon ya na karun" becomes more of a judgement. The complaint is measured, not really agonised, and becomes a quiet understatement of disappointment. "Zindagi yun to hamesha se pareshaan si thi/Ab to kuch aur bhi veeran hui jaati hai." The only other reference to the original nazm is the use of the words "pasheman" and "tamanna" in the song. Here is how "pasheman" was used in the original: "Kaun jane mere imroz(today) ka farda(tomorrow) kya hai/Qurbatein(closeness) badhke pashemaan(ashamed) bhi ho jati hain." The man is unsure of his future, he knows that any intimacy can later become an embarrassment (for the girl...he seems to suggest). He pleads with her "Meri darmaanda(helpless) jawani ki tamannaon ki/Muzmahil(exhausted) khwaab ki taabeer(result) bata de mujhko." The tables are turned in the film version, "Jis tamanna ke sahare pe thi jeene ki ummeed/Wo tammanna bhi pasheman(ashamed) hui jaati hai" What is a vulnerable plea of the male lover riddled with the irony of the situation in the nazm, has become in the film, a situation where the woman is the betrayed one, disillusioned by her trust in the lover's desire. She is, indeed, "ashamed," but the meaning of the word has changed. I wonder if Ismat Chugtai had something to do with the feminist perspective given to the nazm.... wink2.gif

Seriously though, that is typically Sahir, turning something into a strength even while working in a medium which often did not allow much scope for originality. Here it is not really the words of the song that are original, but Sahir's creativity lies in the fact that he could go back to an original, complex work and rework it in the context of mainstream cinema and still manage to suggest an original thought and a different point of view while remaining firmly within the constraints of that medium.

Will upload both the songs in just a bit.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Oct 13 2007, 05:16 AM

OPN-Sone Ki Chidiyan(1958)-Pyar par bas to(TM_Sahir).mp3
128/4:15

OPN-Sone Ki Chidiyan(1958)-Pyar Par Bas To Nahin-cd(AB_Sahir).mp3
128/3:11

Posted by: anjvajay Oct 14 2007, 04:01 AM

Shukriya Madhavi,
Depth badti ja rahi hai.
Likhna ab apne liye likhne me badalta jaa raha hai.
Shubhamasti!

Posted by: mmuk2004 Oct 14 2007, 04:08 AM

Thank you Ajay, always look forward to your comments. What does "Shubhamasti" mean? Do you know the date of the publication of Mataa-e-ghair?

Posted by: anjvajay Oct 17 2007, 08:09 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Oct 14 2007, 04:08 AM) *

Thank you Ajay, always look forward to your comments. What does "Shubhamasti" mean? Do you know the date of the publication of Mataa-e-ghair?

Welcome Madhavi,
Mere paas jo Qulliyaat hai usme dates nahin hain. Poems alphabetical di huyi hain. Isliye Mataa-e-Ghair ke dates ke baare mein mere liye kuch kahna mushkil hai. Doosare sources se kuchh pata laga to zaroor bataooga.

Shubhamasti=Shubham+Asti=It is Auspicious

Posted by: mmuk2004 Dec 1 2007, 04:54 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 25 2006, 06:39 PM) *

QUOTE(visuja @ Jul 5 2006, 06:38 AM) *


Khuda-e-Bartar - Lata - Taj Mahal - Roshan - Sahir

Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai
Har Ek Fateh-o-Zafar Ke Daaman Pe Khoon-e-Insaan Ka Rang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai...

bartar = surpassing ; fatah = conquest by means of jihad ;
zafar = Conquest, Gain, Triumph, Victory


Zamiin Bhi Teri, Hain Hum Bhi Tere, Ye Milkiyat Ka Sawaal Kya Hai
Ye Qatl-o-Khoon Ka Rivaaz Kyun Hai, Ye Rasm-e-Jang-o-Jadaal Kya Hai
Jinhein Talab Hai Jahaan Bhar Ki, Unhiin Ka Dil Itna Tang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

milkiyat = Keeping/possession/property ; jadaal = list
talab = quest/Pursuit/demand/search ; tang = Limited


Gareeb Maaon Shareef Behnon Ko Amn-o-Izzat Ki Zindagi De
Jinhein Ataa Kii Hai Tu Ne Taaqat, Unhein Hidaayat Ki Roshni De
Saron Mein Kibr-o-Ghuroor Kyun hai, Dilon Ke Sheeshe Pe Zang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

amn = peace ; ataa = gift ; hidaayat = Guidance/Instruction/Righteousness
kibr = arrogance/grandness


Khazaa Ke Raste Pe Jaanewaalon Ko Bachke Aane Ki Raah Dena
Dilon Ke Gulshan Ujad Na Jaaye, Mohabbaton Ko Panaah Dena
Jahaan Mein Jashn-e-Wafaa Ke Badle, Ye Jashn-e-Teer-o-Tafang Kyun Hai
Khuda-e-Bartar Teri Zamiin Par, Zamiin Ki Khaatir Ye Jung Kyun Hai

kazaa = death; panaah = protection/shelter
jashn = party/celebration ; tafang = musket





Came across a discussion on this song at HF some time ago while googling...The meanings in bold interspersed in the body of the poem are all from posts on that discussion.

An anti war song that transcends time to be tragically relevant even today. It is imbued with Sahir's secular and humanistic consciousness and has resonating lines such as: "Har ek Fateh-o-Zafar ke daman pe khoone-e-insaan ka rang kyun hai". Why is it that (the lap of) every religious war/victory is stained with humar blood?

The use of the word "daaman"(lap/suggesting shelter/protection) highlights a sense of betrayal (the "lap" of religious wars not providing succor and protection but brutal murders), that tends to get lost in the translation.

"Zamin bhi teri,hain hum bhi tere/Ye milkiyat ka sawal kyun hai" This is not the iconclastic Sahir of "Aasman pe hai khuda aur zamin pe hum/Aaj kal wo is taraf dekhta hai kam". Here he positions himself within the religious consciousness and argues that if as believers we believe that the world is yours and we are yours then how does the issue of possession/ownership and wresting of property come in?

"Jinhen talab hai jahan bhar ki/Unhi ka dil itna tang kyun hai" (Those who are worried about the whole world...this is radical Sahir again bitterly hitting out against religious leaders, actually all demagogues...)

From the larger issues, Sahir comes down to individual traits that fan these larger issues..."Saron me kibr-o-ghuroor kyun hai" "Dilon ke sheeshe pe zang kyun hai" These are situations and charateristics that one faces in everyday, ordinary life that escalate into bloodshed and violence... "Jahan mein jashn-e-wafa ke badle ye jashn-e-teer-o-tafang kyun hai"...

It is a dark poem exposing the futility of war and the human expense at which such wars are fought and is posited as a series of protests to the Almighty in the form of rhetorical questions. However, interspersed in the protests are also some requests by the poet to the almighty...

Gareeb Maaon Shareef Behnon Ko Amn-o-Izzat Ki Zindagi De
Jinhein Ataa Kii Hai Tu Ne Taaqat, Unhein Hidaayat Ki Roshni De


Khazaa Ke Raste Pe Jaanewaalon Ko Bachke Aane Ki Raah Dena
Dilon Ke Gulshan Ujad Na Jaaye, Mohabbaton Ko Panaah Dena


The poet has not given up all hope, he requests for peace, he asks that those who have power use is correctly, he wants those who face death to be able to come back safely... "Mohabbaton ko panaah dena"...beautiful lines, even though he reverts back to the darker questioning by the end of the poem. The poem precariously hangs between despair and hope...


As I have said before, a discussion of the lyrics with some sort of infomation about the musical composition would enhance one's appreciation of a song tremendously. Am including a comment from a friend whose views and analyses I respect tremendously:

QUOTE
archimoz:
For me, two composers were just outstanding. Roshan & Jaidev. Roshan, with his unhurried & lilting style of composition was a true genius. That he had chosen to full blooded raagas to compose two great poems of Sahir in Taj Mahal, requires mind-boggling skills. 'jurm-e-ulfat' & 'khuda-e-barter' in raags 'nat' & 'miyan ki todi'. Roshan's grasp over HCM (he was a student of the great Srikrishna Narayan Ratanjankar, the greatest musicologist of India & the Principal of Marris College at Lucknow).

Posted by: mmuk2004 Dec 1 2007, 05:09 AM

A Roshan-Sahir combination that raises "Ishq" to dizzying heights using a form that was difficult to use in its traditional form in mainstream cinema...

Check out the video of the song:
Barsaat Ki Raat(1960):Na To Karvaan Ki Talash Hai
(Rafi_Mannadey_SDBatish_AshaBhonsle_SudhaMalhotra)


The lyrics are from this link:
http://mbm1983pet1.blogspot.com/2007/08/kawaali-aalok-jain.html

Na To Caarvaan Ki Talaash Hai, Na To Humsafar Ki Talaash Hai
Mere Shauq-E-Khaana Kharaab Ko, Teri Rehguzar Ki Talaash Hai

Mere Naamuraad Junoon Ka Hai Ilaaj Koi To Maut Hai
Jo Dava Ke Naam Pe Zehar De Usi Chaaraagar Ki Talaash Hai

Tera Ishq Hai Meri Aarzoo, Tera Ishq Hai Meri Aabroo
Dil Ishq Jism Ishq Hai Aur Jaan Ishq Hai
Imaan Ki Jo Poochho To Imaan Ishq Hai
Tera Ishq Hai Meri Aarzoo, Tera Ishq Hai Meri Aabroo,
Tera Ishq Maein Kaise Chhod Doon, Meri Umra Bhar Ki Talaash Hai

Jaansoz Ki Haalat Ko Jaansoz Hi Samjhega
Maein Shamaa Se Kehta Hoon Mehfil Se Nahin Kehta Kyonki
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Sahar Tak Sabka Hai Anjaam Jal Kar Khaak Ho Jaana,
Bhari Mehfil Mein Koi Shammaa Ya Parvaana Ho Jaye Kyonki
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Vehshat-E-Dil Rasm-O-Deedaar Se Roki Na Gayi
Kisi Khanjar, Kisi Talvaar Se Roki Na Gayi
Ishq Majnu Ki Vo Aavaz Hai Jiske Aage
Koi Laila Kisi Deewaar Se Roki Na Gayi, Kyonki
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Vo Hanske Agar Maangen To Hum Jaan Bhi Deden,
Haan Ye Jaan To Kya Cheez Hai Imaan Bhi Deden Kyonki
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Naaz-O-Andaaz Se Kehte Hain Ki Jeena Hoga,
Zehar Bhi Dete Hain To Kehte Hain Ki Peena Hoga
Jab Maein Peeta Hoon To Kehten Hai Ki Marta Bhi Nahin,
Jab Maein Marta Hoon To Kehte Hain Ki Jeena Hoga
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Mazhab-E-Ishq Ki Har Rasm Kadi Hoti Hai,
Har Kadam Par Koi Deewaar Khadi Hoti Hai
Ishq Aazad Hai, Hindu Na Musalmaan Hai Ishq,
Aap Hi Dharm Hai Aur Aap Hi Imaan Hai Ishq
Jis Se Aagaah Nahi Shekh-O-Barahaaman Dono,
Us Haqeeqat Ka Garajtaa Hua Ailaan Hai Ishq

Ishq Na Puchhe Deen Dharm Nu, Ishq Na Puchhe Jaataan
Ishq De Haathon Garam Lahu Vich, Doobiyaan Lakh Baraataan Ke
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Raah Ulfat Ki Kathin Hai Ise Aasaan Na Samajh
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Bahut Kathin Hai Dagar Panghat Ki
Ab Kya Bhar Laun Maein Jamuna Se Matki
Maein Jo Chali Jal Jamuna Bharan Ko
Dekho Sakhi Ji Maein Jo Chali Jal Jamuna Bharan Ko
Nandkishor Mohe Roke Jhaadon To
Kya Bhar Laun Maein Jamuna Se Matki
Ab Laaj Raakho More Ghoonghat Pat Ki

Jab Jab Krishn Ki Bansi Baaji, Nikali Raadha Saj Ke
Jaan Ajaan Ka Maan Bhula Ke, Lok Laaj Ko Taj Ke
Janak Dulaari Ban Ban Doli, Pahan Ke Prem Ki Maala
Darshan Jal Ki Pyaasi Meera Pi Gai Vishh Ka Pyaala
Aur Phir Araj Kari Ke
Laaj Raakho Raakho Raakho, Laaj Raakho Dekho Dekho,
Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq, Ye Ishq Ishq Hai Ishq Ishq

Allah Rasool Ka Farmaan Ishq Hai
Yaane Hafeez Ishq Hai, Quraan Ishq Hai
Gautam Kaa Aur Maseeh Ka Armaan Ishq Hai
Ye Kaaynaat Jism Hai Aur Jaan Ishq Hai
Ishq Sarmad, Ishq Hi Mansoor Hai
Ishq Moosa, Ishq Koh-E-Noor Hai
Khaaq Ko But, Aur But Ko Devta Karta Hai Ishq
Intaha Ye Hai Ke Bande Ko Khuda Karta Hai Ishq

Haan Ishq Ishq Tera Ishq Ishq
Tera Ishq Ishq, Ishq Ishq



Posted by: mmuk2004 Dec 1 2007, 05:11 AM

First some information on Qawwali as a form.

Have only been recently introduced to it, so am basically using information from these websites that I found useful:
http://www.osa.co.uk/qawwali_history.html
http://www.arigoldfilms.com/qawwali.html


Qawwali is a form associated with the Sufi tradition in Islam, and the particular practices that the Sufi saints developed to get close to god. It developed from a variety of roots such as philosophy, science, mathematics,musicology and literature... at around the 11th century A.D. The Muslim philosopher Al-Ghazali is credited with codifying it in his book "The Book of the Right Usages of Audition and Trance," written in the beginning of the 12th century. It is considered an important book on the traditions of Sufism.

Sama : was an important element of Sufism which is a kind of spiritual concert where the music was sung by a soloist or a chorus using instrumental elements of varying importance. The audience listened and and let themselves become involved in a trance like state and the return to a normal state would again be brought about by appropriate music..

"a mode which brings one closer to the experience of this inner truth by presenting the words (kalam) in the vehicle of music, thus providing an intangible; interplay between form and content, dwelling on certain words to give them a wider context, creating great depth in the apparently simple language of certain Sufic texts. The qawwals often dwell on one phrase or sentence, indicating both the obvious and hidden content by emphasizing and repeating various words and syllables, taking the audience into the discovery of hitherto not obvious meanings. A spinning wheel thus changes from a household instrument into the wheel of life or the wheel of hope depending on the shift of emphasis in one sentence. Repeating a sentence until all meaning is exhausted and it becomes meaningless is another technique for bringing the audience closer to the elusive ma'rifat. Through this technique, semantic reality is negated and a purity of form is created. It is often this element that transcends linguistic barriers."

Posted by: mmuk2004 Dec 1 2007, 06:37 AM

History of qawwali: contd. ph34r.gif

In India, the Chishti school is associated with the spread of Sufism and its propogation of its message through the form of the qawwali. One of its most respected saints was Khwaja Moinuddin Chisti(1143-1234) who lived in Delhi and later retired to Ajmer. Nizamuddin Auliya(1236-1325) was another Sufi saint who lived in Delhi and was famous for his use of music to spread the message of sufism. Khusrau(1254-1324) whose inspiration was Nizamuddin Aulia, is credited with mixing the Persian and Indian elements in the Qawwali.

"The languages of South Asia were freely used by Amir Khusraw in his compositions - Purbi (the language of Bihar) and Braj Bhasha. In Pakistan today, traditional qawwal still start their performance with a Farsi invocation, moving on to the South Asian language, Panjabi and moving further eastwards vvith Hindi, Urdu and Purbi. This west to east transition is also reflected in many Sufi texts of this region. This sequence is not followed in India, where the transitional link is not as strong."

The mystical underpinnings of Sufism went hand in hand with the secular orientation of its message of tolerance... and when the form of the Qawwali was appropriated by the film industries of both India and Pakistan, it was glamorized to shed its religious roots. Qawwalis focussed instead on love(even that can be traced back to the mystical tradition of using the love of the beloved as a metaphor of love for god), and other elements such as social commentary, satire and humor.

QUOTE

http://www.osa.co.uk/qawwali_history.html

The mystic imagery of qawwali began to be used for secular purposes: for examples;: the concept of wine in sufism indicates the secret knowledge ma’rifat), but this concept was effectively used in an orgiastic qawali by ths Sabri Btothers:,. "men sharabi" ("I am a drinker"). This was done so skillfuly as to make the interpretation open to the audience, while a (loose religious symbolism was retained. The film industry in Pakistan, realising the potential of qawwali, began to use it as a form of entertainment. Starting as performances in the traditional context at a sacred shrine (such as the memorable qawwali scene in the experimental film "samundar" (the Ocean in which a quasi-religious atmosphere is created), it moved on to humour. In the latter case, the qawwali form was used as a satire and the content was so disparate with traditional mystic imagery that laughter resulted. Such an inversion of religious content to create a comic effect is generally frowned upon by the orthodoxy and not accepted by qawwal themselves.

Going one step ahead after the secularization of qawwali, it began to emerge in stage shows at urban centres as a dialogue. Humourous exchanges between opposed groups of male and female performers respectively became a feature of entertaining programmes staged by young students at college functions.

The latest development of the qawwali form in this context has been the use of Pashto qawwali as a form of dialogue and social criticism. Qawwali cassettes in the Pashto language talk about the travails of Pushtun migrant ,labour in the major urban centres and Pakistan Television airs humourous dialogues between opposing groups (such as truckdrivers and the general public). Qawwali exists in most languages of Pakistan (with the exception of Sindhi and perhaps Baluchi) and continues to grow vigorously; the form being retained and the content changing with need and use.



Okay, only this much for today... rolleyes.gif will hopefully complete this by the weekend... In the meantime, if anyone has a good audio copy of "Ye Ishq Ishq Hai" please do upload.

Posted by: Hari Ram Dec 1 2007, 08:10 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Nov 30 2007, 07:07 PM) *

Okay, only this much for today... rolleyes.gif will hopefully complete this by the weekend... In the meantime, if anyone has a good audio copy of "Ye Ishq Ishq Hai" please do upload.

Madhavi,

I have the following three audios of this song:

yeh ishq ishq hai ishq ishq - 7:08 min
naa to kaarwaan ki talaash hai - 7:22 & 11:53min

The audio of 11:53 duration might be from Sukesh.
I can upload any of the above audios.

Hari Ram

Posted by: Aurous Dec 1 2007, 08:23 PM

Even I have the 11:53 one. Will share, if required.

Posted by: Yasmin Dec 7 2007, 07:41 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Jul 26 2006, 09:56 PM) *

Thanks Vivek, and please call me Madhavi. Ji gives me some "ji"tters biggrin.gif

Setting the scene for romance... Weather and the ambience permitting, the lovers gear up to admit to the great emotion...

Jaal:1952:SDB
Ye raat ye chandni phir kahan
Sun ja dil ki dastaan..


Joru Ka Bhai:1955:Jaidev
Surmai raat hai sitare hain...aaj dono jahan hamare hain
Subah ka intezaar kaun kare
Phir ye rut ye sama mile na mile
Aarzoo ka chaman khile na khile
Waqt ka aetbaar kaun kare..


House No.44 : 1955:SDB
Chup hai dharti chup hain chand sitare
Mere dil ki dhadkan tujhko pukare



Vaasna:1968:Chitragupt
Ye parbaton ke daere ye shaam ka dhuaan
Aise mein kyun na ched de dilon ki dastaan...


Girlfriend:1960:HK
Kashti ka khamosh safar hai shaam bhi hai tanhai bhi
Door kinare par bajti hain lehron ki shehnai bhi
Aaj mujhe kuch kehna hai


Love this Kishore gem from the sixties. Interesting song, the lover sets the scene for the song, and the girl is impatient to hear him confess to his love, and yet by the end of the song, he has not said the "kuch" that he sets out to say at the beginning. A teaser of a confession, he manages to get the girl to admit to the emotion, gets a commitment for the relationship and then... "Chodo ab kya kehna hai" ... Smart man... wink.gif Sahir playing with words again, setting the scene and then undermining it, suggesting that commitment does not really need verbal expression...

Do add on more "ambience" songs to this list... smile.gif

Am uploading two of the above songs from Girlfriend and Joru ka Bhai.

Plz Re-Upload all songs from Joru Ka Bhai
thanx a lot in Advance
Regards
Yasmin.

Posted by: Hari Ram Dec 7 2007, 09:27 PM

QUOTE(Yasmin @ Dec 7 2007, 08:11 AM) *

Plz Re-Upload all songs from Joru Ka Bhai
thanx a lot in Advance
Regards
Yasmin.


I have uploaded Joru Ka Bhai album here:
http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?s=&showtopic=33206&view=findpost&p=444844
Since not all songs were written by Sahir Ludhianvi, it was uploaded in Jaidev's thread.

Hari Ram

Posted by: Yasmin Dec 7 2007, 09:41 PM

oh great upload Hari Ram smile1.gif
thanx a lot
Regards
Yasmin.

Posted by: Yasmin Dec 7 2007, 09:53 PM

i cudnt find Sahir's Songs from Azadi ki raah par anywhere on earth
can u help me in it sir ?

Posted by: Hari Ram Dec 7 2007, 10:05 PM

QUOTE(Yasmin @ Dec 7 2007, 10:11 AM) *

oh great upload Hari Ram smile1.gif
thanx a lot
Regards
Yasmin.

You are welcome

QUOTE(Yasmin @ Dec 7 2007, 10:23 AM) *

i cudnt find Sahir's Songs from Azadi ki raah par anywhere on earth
can u help me in it sir ?

Yasmin,

I don't have any. Anjvajay recently uploaded ' dil fida karte hain' song; but it is not written by Sahir.

Hari Ram

Posted by: mmuk2004 Dec 16 2007, 08:39 AM

QUOTE(Hari Ram @ Dec 1 2007, 08:40 AM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Nov 30 2007, 07:07 PM) *

Okay, only this much for today... rolleyes.gif will hopefully complete this by the weekend... In the meantime, if anyone has a good audio copy of "Ye Ishq Ishq Hai" please do upload.

Madhavi,

I have the following three audios of this song:

yeh ishq ishq hai ishq ishq - 7:08 min
naa to kaarwaan ki talaash hai - 7:22 & 11:53min

The audio of 11:53 duration might be from Sukesh.
I can upload any of the above audios.

Hari Ram


Hari Ram and Aurous,

Sorry for the late reply, just saw this. Yes please, would really like either of you to upload the long version of "ye ishq ishq hai". (11:53mts).



Posted by: Hari Ram Dec 16 2007, 09:42 PM

Madhavi,

Here is your requested song.

Film: Barsaat Ki Raat (1960)
Music: Roshan
Lyrics: Sahir Ludhianvi
Singers: Manna Dey, S. D. Batish, Asha Bhosle, Sudha Malhotra, Mohammad Rafi
Title: na to kaarvan ki talaash hai, na to hamsafar ki talaash hai ... yeh ishq ishq hai, ishq ishq
[attachmentid=170141]

Hari Ram

Posted by: mmuk2004 Dec 17 2007, 01:05 AM

Thank you Hari Ram, for your prompt upload.

Madhavi

Posted by: mmuk2004 Feb 26 2009, 01:17 PM

Coming back to this thread after a while:

For Ajay: Miss his contributions in this forum and elsewhere.

Doraha(1952_Anil Biswas)

Mohabbat tark ki maine (abandoned/given up)
Gareban (outer clothers/cloak) see liya maine

Zamane ab to khush ho
Zehar ab ye bhi pee liya maine

Abhi zinda hoon lekin sochta rehta hoon ye dil mein(2)
Ke ab tak is tamanna ke sahare jee liya maine
Mohabbat tark...

Tujhe apna nahin sakta magar itna bhi kya kam hai(2)
Ke kuch ghadiyan tere khwabon mein khokar jee liya maine
Mohabbat...

Bas Ab to mera daman chhod do bekar umeedon
Bahut dukh seh liye maine bahut din ji liya maine
Mohabbat tark


Thus he begins his successful film career, resplendent with songs of love, stating in the very first line of his very first song, that he has abandoned it. This tussle with the emotion, the tension between desire and despair, is one of the central motifs of Sahir's poetry. It is in expressing this that he is at his most personal.

The lover has abandoned love, he has covered his vulnerability (gareban see liya...) and he turns to the rest of the world... are you satisfied, now that I have taken this poison... Sahir's lover still seems involved with the world, even when he is in the throes of rejecting it...

In fact the song has a number of themes that are central to Sahir's poems/lyrics. The loneliness of the lover, the "antagonistic" world, the woman who can never be his etc.

I have a question. I was closely following the lyrics of the song when I realised that it differs slightly from the lyrics of the poem,(I checked a couple of places on the web). Could not find much information on it apart from the fact that this was his first song for films, and that he got the job with the help of Prem Dhawan, who recommended him to Anil Biswas, and who penned the other Talat song in the film. The third Talat solo was written by someone else (am forgetting his name). Back to my question: Was the song previously part of some collection, that Sahir used for the film later? He has done that with some other poems too.

Here are the lyrics of the poem

Mohabbat Tark Ki Main Ne Garebaan Si Liyaa Main Ne
Zamaane Ab To Khush Ho Zahar Ye Bhee Pi Liyaa Main Ne

Abhee Zindaa Hun Lekin Sochataa Rahataa Hun Khalvat Mein
Ki Ab Tak Kis Tamannaa Ke Sahaare Ji Liyaa Main Ne
[Khalvat=solitude]

Unhen Apanaa Nahin Sakataa Magar Itanaa Bhee Kyaa Kam Hai
Ki Kuchh Muddat Hasin Khvaabon Mein Kho Kar Ji Liyaa Main Ne

Bas Ab To Daaman-E-Dil Chhod Do Bekaar Ummido
Bahut Dukh Sah Liye Main Ne Bahut Din Ji Liyaa Main Ne

In the last stanza, he calls upon his hope to let him go, he is tired of this struggle and beautifully captures it in the simple repetion of the word "bahut": "Bahut dukh seh liye maine/Bahut din ji liya maine" Sahir has this knack of delivering his punch lines with incredible simplicity: Bahut dukh seh liye maine/Bahut din ji liya maine... you cannot analyse these lines to death, they are what they mean and yet they form the core of Sahir's existential angst. They take me straight to another incredible song: "Teri duniya main jeene se/To behtar hai ke mar jayen..." You cannot get more direct than this and yet what resonances the song sets up!

And Talat's rendition... that direct vulnerability is so appealing.

Of the many copies of Mohabbat Tarq Ki Maine that I have, I could not find a single clear one. Can someone upload a good copy of the song?

Posted by: Anupama Mar 9 2009, 04:58 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Feb 26 2009, 03:47 AM) *

Coming back to this thread after a while:

For Ajay: Miss his contributions in this forum and elsewhere.

Doraha(1952_Anil Biswas)

Mohabbat tark ki maine (abandoned/given up)
Gareban (outer clothers/cloak) see liya maine

Zamane ab to khush ho
Zehar ab ye bhi pee liya maine

Abhi zinda hoon lekin sochta rehta hoon ye dil mein(2)
Ke ab tak is tamanna ke sahare jee liya maine
Mohabbat tark...

Tujhe apna nahin sakta magar itna bhi kya kam hai(2)
Ke kuch ghadiyan tere khwabon mein khokar jee liya maine
Mohabbat...

Bas Ab to mera daman chhod do bekar umeedon
Bahut dukh seh liye maine bahut din ji liya maine
Mohabbat tark


Thus he begins his successful film career, resplendent with songs of love, stating in the very first line of his very first song, that he has abandoned it. This tussle with the emotion, the tension between desire and despair, is one of the central motifs of Sahir's poetry. It is in expressing this that he is at his most personal.

The lover has abandoned love, he has covered his vulnerability (gareban see liya...) and he turns to the rest of the world... are you satisfied, now that I have taken this poison... Sahir's lover still seems involved with the world, even when he is in the throes of rejecting it...

In fact the song has a number of themes that are central to Sahir's poems/lyrics. The loneliness of the lover, the "antagonistic" world, the woman who can never be his etc.

I have a question. I was closely following the lyrics of the song when I realised that it differs slightly from the lyrics of the poem,(I checked a couple of places on the web). Could not find much information on it apart from the fact that this was his first song for films, and that he got the job with the help of Prem Dhawan, who recommended him to Anil Biswas, and who penned the other Talat song in the film. The third Talat solo was written by someone else (am forgetting his name). Back to my question: Was the song previously part of some collection, that Sahir used for the film later? He has done that with some other poems too.

Here are the lyrics of the poem

Mohabbat Tark Ki Main Ne Garebaan Si Liyaa Main Ne
Zamaane Ab To Khush Ho Zahar Ye Bhee Pi Liyaa Main Ne

Abhee Zindaa Hun Lekin Sochataa Rahataa Hun Khalvat Mein
Ki Ab Tak Kis Tamannaa Ke Sahaare Ji Liyaa Main Ne
[Khalvat=solitude]

Unhen Apanaa Nahin Sakataa Magar Itanaa Bhee Kyaa Kam Hai
Ki Kuchh Muddat Hasin Khvaabon Mein Kho Kar Ji Liyaa Main Ne

Bas Ab To Daaman-E-Dil Chhod Do Bekaar Ummido
Bahut Dukh Sah Liye Main Ne Bahut Din Ji Liyaa Main Ne

In the last stanza, he calls upon his hope to let him go, he is tired of this struggle and beautifully captures it in the simple repetion of the word "bahut": "Bahut dukh seh liye maine/Bahut din ji liya maine" Sahir has this knack of delivering his punch lines with incredible simplicity: Bahut dukh seh liye maine/Bahut din ji liya maine... you cannot analyse these lines to death, they are what they mean and yet they form the core of Sahir's existential angst. They take me straight to another incredible song: "Teri duniya main jeene se/To behtar hai ke mar jayen..." You cannot get more direct than this and yet what resonances the song sets up!

And Talat's rendition... that direct vulnerability is so appealing.

Of the many copies of Mohabbat Tarq Ki Maine that I have, I could not find a single clear one. Can someone upload a good copy of the song?


Excellent write-up Madhavi, as usual! Great 2 have you back on your lovely thread. Keep posting. I really enjoy reading your insightful posts. Even I'm looking for a good copy of Mohabbat Tarq Ki Maine sad1.gif

Attached Imageto ma fav. poet, Sahir!




Posted by: r&d Mar 9 2009, 08:23 AM

mp3 file is from TalatMahmood.net digitally remastered version.

m4a file is my cleaning of it. both sound terrible on headphone
but fine on my laptop speaker.


Third lyricist was Josh Malihabadi.


P.S. do you guys remember when priyaji posted some cartoon images
(scences from ramayana)
making fun of Unniji. Well the whole movie is released now.
Sita Sings the Blues. Probably not for Traditionalists.

Download the mpeg4 file.
http://www.archive.org/details/Sita_Sings_the_Blues

or see streamed version
http://www.thirteen.org/sites/reel13/blog/watch-sita-sings-the-blues-online/347/

Posted by: behenji.turned.mod Mar 9 2009, 08:56 AM


thx r&d


Posted by: mmuk2004 Mar 9 2009, 12:18 PM

Thanks Anu smile.gif

Thanks Rajnish. Your version is certainly cleaner than mine.

Will check out the movie. Is it very long?

Posted by: r&d Mar 9 2009, 12:35 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Mar 8 2009, 11:48 PM) *

Thanks Anu smile.gif

Thanks Rajnish. Your version is certainly cleaner than mine.

Will check out the movie. Is it very long?


haven't downloaded it yet. just read blog posting about it.

Run time: 01:21:31

Summary:
Sita is a goddess separated from her beloved Lord and husband Rama. Nina is an animator whose husband moves to India, then dumps her by email. Three hilarious shadow puppets narrate both ancient tragedy and modern comedy in this beautifully animated interpretation of the Indian epic Ramayana. Set to the 1920's jazz vocals of Annette Hanshaw, Sita Sings the Blues earns its tagline as "the Greatest Break-Up Story Ever Told."

Posted by: Anupama Mar 12 2009, 03:27 AM

QUOTE(r&d @ Mar 8 2009, 10:53 PM) *

mp3 file is from TalatMahmood.net digitally remastered version.

m4a file is my cleaning of it. both sound terrible on headphone
but fine on my laptop speaker.


Third lyricist was Josh Malihabadi.


P.S. do you guys remember when priyaji posted some cartoon images
(scences from ramayana)
making fun of Unniji. Well the whole movie is released now.
Sita Sings the Blues. Probably not for Traditionalists.

Download the mpeg4 file.
http://www.archive.org/details/Sita_Sings_the_Blues

or see streamed version
http://www.thirteen.org/sites/reel13/blog/watch-sita-sings-the-blues-online/347/


Thanks a lot for the better versions, Rajnishji!
Downloading the movie file. Will check it out this weekend! Thanks for the links! smile.gif

Posted by: alok Apr 4 2009, 09:31 PM

Chaahe Dekhe Ghur Ke Chaahe De Gaaliya Humein Pasand Hai

Film : Sachche Moti (1962)
Singer : Mohd.Rafi & Asha Bhosle
Music : N. Dutta
Lyrics : Sahir Ludhianvi
Duration : 3.24mins





Posted by: mmuk2004 Apr 19 2009, 09:43 AM

QUOTE(r&d @ Mar 9 2009, 02:05 AM) *

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Mar 8 2009, 11:48 PM) *

Thanks Anu smile.gif

Thanks Rajnish. Your version is certainly cleaner than mine.

Will check out the movie. Is it very long?


haven't downloaded it yet. just read blog posting about it.

Run time: 01:21:31

Summary:
Sita is a goddess separated from her beloved Lord and husband Rama. Nina is an animator whose husband moves to India, then dumps her by email. Three hilarious shadow puppets narrate both ancient tragedy and modern comedy in this beautifully animated interpretation of the Indian epic Ramayana. Set to the 1920's jazz vocals of Annette Hanshaw, Sita Sings the Blues earns its tagline as "the Greatest Break-Up Story Ever Told."


Rajnish,

Finally saw the movie. Thanks for recommending it. I have written a few lines on it here, in the Hollywood review section : http://www.hamaraforums.com/index.php?showtopic=51701&pid=590144&st=105&#entry590144
Did you manage to see it?

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 12 2009, 11:39 AM

QUOTE
cinemaniac2Aug 10 2006, 12:59 PM
BC-ur new avtaar- neither do u look like a bawla nor a chintu
u look like a experienced suave seducer.
and Mmuk-ur one side lat looks superb.
now back to business

Aaj Ki Raat Nahin shikwe shikayat ki raat
aaj har lamha mohabbat ke liye
reshmi.......
...........
...........
subah ne aaj na aane ki kasam khayi hai
aaj ki raat......

a top class suhaag raat song.
another SL classic


CM2ji, here is your request...


Aaj Ki Raat (Dharamputra:1961:Mahendra Kapoor)

Aaj ki raat nahin shikwe shikayat ke liye
Aaj har lamha har ek pal hai mohabbat ke liye
Reshmi sej hai mehki hui tanhai hai
Aaj ki raat muraadon ki baraat aayi hai
Aaj ki raat...

Har gunaah aaj muqaddas hai farishton ki tarha
Kaapte haathon ko mil jane do rishon ki tarha
Aaj milne mein na uljhan hai na rusvai hai
Aaj ki raat muraadon ki baraat aayi hai
Aaj ki raat...

Apni zulfein mere shaaney pe bikhar jane do
Is haseen raat ko kuchh aur nikhar jane do
Subha na aaj na aane ki kasam khayi hai
Aaj ki raat...


A pure moment dedicated to love...
from "Mohabbat tark ki maine, gareeban see liya maine..." to this declaration, that no complaints, no dissatisfaction will be allowed to mar this pure moment of love. The lover insists that every second, every moment be dedicated to love.

"Aaj ki raat nahin shikwe shikayat ke liye
Aaj har lamha har ek pal hai mohabbat ke liye"


The stage is set, silken and lavish for the lovers, filled with the fragrance of solitude... This night comes filled with desires.

Note how often the phrase "Aaj Ki raat" and "Aaj" are repeated in the song...the lover wants to hold this moment, this night and Sahir stretches the moment by the insistent repetition of the phrase "Aaj ki raat" and "Aaj."

The lover wants to keep this moment free from any blemish...

Har gunaah aaj muqaddas(sanctified) hai farishton ki tarha
Kaapte haathon ko mil jane do rishon ki tarha
Aaj milne mein na uljhan hai na rusvai hai
Aaj ki raat muraadon ki baraat aayi hai
Aaj ki raat...


Every crime is sanctified like the angels
Let the trembling hands meet like relationships...
There is nothing to stop this union, no complications, no dishonor,
This night comes filled with desires...

And in the third stanza, he sets the stage for the pure, iconic pose of love. Spread your hair over my shoulders to make the night even more beautiful(Sahir's romantic poetry is replete with sensuous images of "bikhri zulfein") and after he has captured this moment... time holds still. "Subha na aaj na aane ki kasam khayi hai..."

Apni zulfein mere shaaney pe bikhar jane do
Is haseen raat ko kuchh aur nikhar jane do
Subha na aaj na aane ki kasam khayi hai
Aaj ki raat...


QUOTE

another SL classic

CM2ji, will remember you when this song is played... bow.gif

Here is the Youtube link to the song. Can someone please upload this song.

















Posted by: Ittefaq May 12 2009, 01:14 PM

In memory of Cinemaniac2ji.

Dharamputra (1961) - Aaj Ki Raat
Singer- Mahendra Kapoor
MD- N. Dutta
Lyrics- Sahir Ludhianvi
Duration- 3:07 mins
Bitrate- 192kbps
Format- mp3
[attachmentid=275103]


Posted by: mmuk2004 May 13 2009, 06:02 AM

Thanks Ittefaq ji.

Was checking my files from this movie, and heard the Asha "Kya dekha naino wali naina kyun bhar aaye" carefully for the first time. Could not catch some of the words. Does someone have them, the lyrics, I mean? Will jot down them down and ask for specific words that I could not decipher, later.

Posted by: r&d May 13 2009, 06:49 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ May 12 2009, 05:32 PM) *

Thanks Ittefaq ji.

Was checking my files from this movie, and heard the Asha "Kya dekha naino wali naina kyun bhar aaye" carefully for the first time. Could not catch some of the words. Does someone have them, the lyrics, I mean? Will jot down them down and ask for specific words that I could not decipher, later.



http://thaxi.hsc.usc.edu/rmim/giitaayan/files/rmim0104.isb


http://www.giitaayan.com/search.asp?s=Dharmaputra&browse=Film

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 13 2009, 09:01 AM

Thanks Rajnish,

You just made life easier for me. I was listening to the qawwalis also and was dreading the prospect of trying to transcribe them!

Posted by: r&d May 13 2009, 09:20 AM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ May 12 2009, 08:31 PM) *

Thanks Rajnish,

You just made life easier for me. I was listening to the qawwalis also and was dreading the prospect of trying to transcribe them!



madhavi the seducer,

if you are talking about mere dilbar mujhpar.
The DVD version has following stanza missing from the above link. probably you are talking about "Chahe Yeh Mano". I will paste it anyway.

Kahon kyon ke duniya raqib hai
Mera apna dil hi ajeeb hai
Na ye dushman hai na habeeb hai
mein kabhi na isko samajh saka
kabhi apno se bhi hua khafa
kabhi begano se bhel gaya

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 13 2009, 10:26 AM

QUOTE(r&d @ May 12 2009, 10:50 PM) *



madhavi the seducer,




tongue1.gif

I am rediscovering this album and each song is a gem. I would love to comment on all the songs, slowly. Thanks for the extra stanza, Rajnish.

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 14 2009, 11:41 AM

Certainly not romantic Sahir, but in the course of the years, this thread has meandered, influenced by many people and many events, enhancing for me, the pleasure of Sahir's poetry. Continuing with the album, Dharamputra, requested such a long time ago by CM2ji... it has wonderful songs, I had primarily remembered it for the evocative Asha track, "Main jab bhi akeli hoti hoon." and MK's "Bhool sakta hai bhala kaun." Here is the other Asha solo, that I had not really noticed before, it somehow seems appropriate.


Kya dekha nainon wali
Naina kyun bhar aaye
Kokh bhari aur god hai khali
Naina yun bhar aaye
Naina yun bhar aaye

Ma ban kar bhi ma na bani main
Badnami ke dar se
Doodh meri bojhal seene ko
Aansu ban ban barse
Apna dhan aur aankh sawaali
Naina yun bhar aaye
Naina yun bhar aaye

Je bhi saki to jeete ji ye
Sog(?) rahega mujhko
Bolega par mera munna
Ma na kahega mujhko
Ma kehlana ban gaya gali
Naina yun bhar aaye
Naina yun bhar...
Naina yun bhar aaye


Mala Sinha has to give up her child who is brought up by Nirupa Rai and her husband. In typical Sahir fashion, you have the straight lines, "Kokh bhari aur god hai khali, naina yun bhar aaye" and "Ma ban kar bhi ma na bani main/Badnami ke dar se" "Bolega par mera munna ma na kahega mujhko" ... it you have not seen the movie, and don't know much about it, these lines make this particular situation amply clear.

What gives it a haunting sweetness, are the opening lines of the song, so beautifully sung by Asha, "Kya dekha naino wali/Naina kyun bhar aaye." It is an odd song, some of the lines don't seem grammatically correct, e.g. " Doodh meri bojhal seene ko/Aansu ban ban barse." It really ought to be either "Seene mein" or "seene se". And then the opening line too "Kya dekha naino wali," does not make sense either, and yet the melancholic poetry of this line, gives meaning to the entire song. She is looking into the past, maybe she is looking into the future, perhaps she is looking into herself...Kya dekha naino wali...it makes her sad..."Naina yun bhar aaye." Apna dhan aur aap sawaali... her wealth taken away, she has been left a begger..."Naina yun bhar aaye..." It makes her sad.

And the last stanza extends the personal sadness to a social criticism, "Ma kehlana ban gaya gali" ... Sahir's juxtaposition of "Ma" and "Gali" has shock value, it is a social commentary and yet in the song it is not added on as an external thought, it emerges out of her very personal pain, as a very personal protest...naina yun bhar aaye, naina yun bhar aaye. Sahir can set up such resonances with his use of repetition.

NDutta-Dharamputra(1961)-Naina kyon bhar aaye(AB_Sahir).rar
96/3:15 (The file has a few empty seconds that make it 3:27 mts in length)
If anyone has a better copy of the song, please upload.

Have taken off mine, Anu has uploaded a better version below.

Posted by: Exon May 15 2009, 12:43 AM

Madhavi,

You write well.
Usually, I listen to songs for their tunes. Your posts make me re-listen to them from new perspectives.

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ May 14 2009, 11:41 AM) *


What gives it a haunting sweetness, are the opening lines of the song, so beautifully sung by Asha, "Kya dekha naino wali/Naina kyun bhar aaye." It is an odd song, some of the lines don't seem grammatically correct, e.g. " Doodh meri bojhal seene ko/Aansu ban ban barse." It really ought to be either "Seene mein" or "seene se". And then the opening line too "Kya dekha naino wali," does not make sense either, and yet the melancholic poetry of this line, gives meaning to the entire song.

NDutta-Dharamputra(1961)-Naina kyon bhar aaye(AB_Sahir).rar
96/3:15 (The file has a few empty seconds that make it 3:27 mts in length)
If anyone has a better copy of the song, please upload.

In the line 'kya dekha naino waali?, naina kyon bhar aaye', isn't 'nayan' addressed as a third person? I could be wrong; I am not well versed in the language.

There is a reasonable copy of the song on UTube.

Exon

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 15 2009, 04:12 AM

Exonji,

Sharing Sahir's poetry with those who listen enhances the pleasure of the poetry. Thank you. smile1.gif Just reign (oops rein) me in when I get altogether too fanciful though tongue1.gif


QUOTE
In the line 'kya dekha naino waali?, naina kyon bhar aaye', isn't 'nayan' addressed as a third person? I could be wrong; I am not well versed in the language.


I feel that that line is deliberately left vague. Your sense of the third person is also included in it actually, if you look at the vid, the lines "Kya dekha naino wali/naina kyun bhar aaye" is not actually sung by Mala Sinha. It seems as if she is looking at her own life or at herself and thinking those lines. So yes, she is thinking of herself in the third person in that sense.




I have not yet extracted audio from a youtube vid. Is it worth the effort?

Posted by: Anupama May 15 2009, 04:44 AM

You excelled once again, Madhavi! bow.gif

Here are the better quality versions of Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye

Film - Dharamputra 1961
MD - N.Dutta
Lyricist - Sahir Ludhianvi
Singer - Asha Bhonsle


Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye (album version)
3:26/160kbps
[attachmentid=275548]

Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye (film version)
4:04/160kbps
[attachmentid=275549]



I'm posting the correct lyrics of the song which will help rid you of the confusion on some lines.


Kya Dekha Nainon Waali, Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Kokh Bhari Aur Godd Hai Khaali, Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye..........

Maa Ban Kar Bhi Maa Na Bani Main, Badnaami Ke Darr Se (2)
Doodh, Mere Bojhal Seene Ka, Aansoo Ban Ban Barse
Apna Dhan Aur Aap Sawaali, Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Kya Dekha Nainon Waali, Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye............

Jee Bhi Saki Toh Jeete Jee Yeh Sog Rahega Mujhko (2)
Bolega, Par Mera Munna Maa Na Kahega Mujhko
Maa Kehlaana Ban Gaya Gaali, Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye,
Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Kya Dekha Nainon Waali, Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye............

Urdu: Sog
English: Jeremiad, Lamentation, Mourning

Urdu: Bojh
English: Burden, Load, Weight

Urdu: Sawaali
English: Beggar


http://www.ebazm.com/cgi/dict/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&Urdu=sawaali&English=&Hindi=&keyword=&view_records=View+Records

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 15 2009, 04:56 AM

Anu, smile1.gif

Thanks a ton for the clarification. Makes perfect sense now. "Seene ka" ofc ! "Apna Dhan aur aap sawaali" : Sahir is playing on the words wealth and poverty.




Posted by: simplefable May 15 2009, 08:09 AM

Madhavi..This is one great reading...to be honest, i never heard the song before. But the description made me realize the beauty of it..and i knew that Anupama will step in with her valuable contribution... wink.gif so just waited..am the sloth. laugh.gif thanks for the songs.. smile.gif
Exon...yes, as you said , for people like us, this kind of description is all the more interesting.. smile.gif

Posted by: vdsachin May 15 2009, 01:58 PM

"Bolega, Par Mera Munna Maa Na Kahega Mujhko
Maa Kehlaana Ban Gaya Gaali, Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye,
Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye....."

Pinnacle of Pain & Sorrow.... so beautifully captured by Sahir Ludhianvi and euqally matched by Dutta's tune & Asha's voice...

Thanks a Lot mmuk2004 & Anupama for this.... bow.gif smile.gif


Posted by: mmuk2004 Jun 10 2009, 10:37 AM

SF and Sachin ji, sorry for the late acknowledgement, thought I would show my appreciation by posting another song analysis... biggrin.gif . Please feel free to write your own comments in this thread... or talk about your favorite Sahir songs and what you think about them.

Dharamputra(1961)

Mere dilbar mujhpar khafa na ho
Kahin teri bhi kuch khata na ho
Jo ye dil diwana machal gaya
Mere dilbar...

Jo kisi ke roke ruka na ho
Kisi sange dar par jhuka na ho
Tere dar pe kaise phisal gaya
Jo ye dil diwana...

Ye nazar mein masti ghuli ghuli
Ye sunehri rangat dhuli dhuli
Ye ghaneri zulfen khuli khuli
Wo zamane bhar ka guroor hai
Wo nasha hai jo bhi suroor hai
wo tere shabab mein dhal gaya...
Jo ye dil diwana...

Kahoon kyun ke duniya rakeeb(rival) hai
Mera apna dil hi ajeeb hai
Na ye dushman hai na habeeb hai
Main kabhi na isko samajh saka
Kabhi apno se bhi hua khafa
Kabhi begano se behal gaya...
Jo ye dil...

Mere dil ki janib nigah kar
O Mujhe na gham se tabah kar
Kabhi bhule se hi nibah kar
O zara soch ke duniya kahegi kya
Teri ruswayi bach rahegi kya
Jo diwana ghar se nikal gaya
Jo ye dil....


Making a case for his heart...

A light qawwali teasing and praising the girl's beauty. It begins with the man asking the girl not to be angry with him, as she is also to blame for his heart "flipping" (machal gaya) for him. There is a youthful flippancy in the song, reminds me of the Dil Hi To Hai songs. Love in light mode...Sahir taking a rest from the bitter intensity of his searing lyrics...it is a very attractive flippancy, the words tripping over each other in comic profusion... His heart..."Jo kisi ke roke ruka na ho/Kisi sange dar par jhuka na ho/Tere dar pe kaise phisal gaya" The girl's beauty is similarly, smoothly praised... "masti ghuli ghuli," sunehri rangat dhuli dhuli" and " ghaneri zulfein khuli khuli"

This time the world is not blamed for the lover's plight...it is his heart that is strange. "Kahun kyun ke duniya rakeeb hai/Mera apna dil hi ajeeb hai" it is neither his enemy nor his friend. It is a stranger to him, capricious, it sometimes estranges itself from close ones and sometimes lets itself be entertained by strangers... Sahir wittily distances himself from his own heart. The song is placed ironically in the film though. It is the celebration of the baby's birth (Mala Sinha's baby, who she cannot acknowledge) by the adopted family. In the stanza, the camera focuses briefly on Mala Sinha's face, reminding the audience of her sorrow and agony over giving up her child. "Mera apna dil hi ajeeb hai.." My own heart is a stranger... her heart is a stranger amidst the celebrations... it is a wonderful line... it can be interpreted to bear upon the story, it has strains of the Sufi philosophy in tune with the qawwali tradition, and it matches perfectly with the comic mood and mode of the song. Wonderful, wonderful stanza... "Main kabhi na isko samajh saka/Kabhi apno se bhi hua khafa/Kabhi begano se behal gaya"

In the third stanza he is back to advocating for this heart of his. He requests his beloved to consider his heart, to not destroy him with sorrow, he asks her to be faithful, even it it is in error ("kabhi bhoole se hi nibah kar"). and he ends his plea with a threat, reminding her of the world, she will be exposed if the lover leaves his home for her... Rafi captures the lighthearted mock threat perfectly in the way he sings "Zara soch ke duniya kahegi kya."

Here is a video of the song:

Posted by: bawlachintu Jul 31 2009, 12:52 PM

QUOTE(Anupama @ May 15 2009, 04:44 AM) *

You excelled once again, Madhavi! bow.gif

Here are the better quality versions of Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye

Film - Dharamputra 1961
MD - N.Dutta
Lyricist - Sahir Ludhianvi
Singer - Asha Bhonsle


Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye (album version)
3:26/160kbps
[attachmentid=275548]

Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye (film version)
4:04/160kbps
[attachmentid=275549]



I'm posting the correct lyrics of the song which will help rid you of the confusion on some lines.


Kya Dekha Nainon Waali, Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Kokh Bhari Aur Godd Hai Khaali, Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye..........

Maa Ban Kar Bhi Maa Na Bani Main, Badnaami Ke Darr Se (2)
Doodh, Mere Bojhal Seene Ka, Aansoo Ban Ban Barse
Apna Dhan Aur Aap Sawaali, Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Kya Dekha Nainon Waali, Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye............

Jee Bhi Saki Toh Jeete Jee Yeh Sog Rahega Mujhko (2)
Bolega, Par Mera Munna Maa Na Kahega Mujhko
Maa Kehlaana Ban Gaya Gaali, Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye,
Naina Yoon Bhar Aaye
Kya Dekha Nainon Waali, Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye
Naina Kyon Bhar Aaye............

Urdu: Sog
English: Jeremiad, Lamentation, Mourning

Urdu: Bojh
English: Burden, Load, Weight

Urdu: Sawaali
English: Beggar


http://www.ebazm.com/cgi/dict/db.cgi?db=default&uid=default&Urdu=sawaali&English=&Hindi=&keyword=&view_records=View+Records

Its is Naina yun bhar aaye smile1.gif

How can one derive correct essence out of wrong words ?? wub.gif

Sawali is mostly used for the hindi equivalent-yachak.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 17 2009, 01:56 AM

BC,

I am not very sure about whether I understand you here. If you mean "yun" not "kyun" both are used in the song, not just "yun."

I was trying to look up the meaning of "yachak" it means "healer", "shaman" "local medicine man" etc. (as far as I could make out). If sawaali also means yachak in Hindi then I would think the Urdu word is more appropriate here.

Posted by: simplefable Aug 17 2009, 10:54 AM

Though a little way away from the topic, i just wanted to share a few things as to how i came in touch with the beautiful Shaayri of Sahir.
As you all might be knowing, hindi is not my mother tongue, nor do i get to speak it anywhere in my town. My love for the language came mainly because of lovely songs i used to hear when my elder brothers used to play their records...Enjoyed every bit of the songs without ever wondering what might be the meaning of those melodies..such was their power over me.
I was a voracious reader of telugu fiction in my school days. While i was in seventh standard, there came a very interesting author named Y.Veerendra nath. Every book of his used to kindle our spirits and appease the soul. In one of his books, he wrote about a beautiful song and translated a bit of the song in that context. I fell for that verse head over shoulders and searched for that song and got it....only to realize that in rendition, it surpassed all my expectations. Then i came to know how a verse can steal you..Here is that song which made me sit up and watch for lyrics and lyricists...

Chalo ek baar phir se, ajnabi ban jaye ham dono

Na main tumse koi ummeed rakhoon dilnavaazi ki
Na tum meri taraf dekho galat andaaz nazaron se
Na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkhadaaye meri baaton mein
Na zaahir ho tumhaari kashm-kash ka raaz nazaron se
Chalo ek baar phir se..

Tumhen bhi koi uljhan rokti hai peshkadmi se
Mujhe bhi log kehte hain, ki yeh jalve paraaye hain
Mere hamraah bhi rusvaaiyaan hain mere maajhi ki
Tumhaare saath bhi guzri hui raaton ke saaye hain
Chalo ek baar phir se..

Taarruf rog ho jaaye to usko bhoolnaa behtar
Taalluk bojh ban jaaye to usko todnaa achchha
Voh afsaana jise anjaam tak laana na ho mumkin
Use ek khoobsoorat mod dekar chhodna achchha
Chalo ek baar phir se..

I was fortunate to watch the film in due time and i was dumb struck at the way it was picturised. If i have to pick the finest of Sahir, this one will be there...am sure that as long as humans have the feelings of love and loss...and failure and conscience and hope , this song will reign supreme.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 17 2009, 12:15 PM

SF,

What a wonderful way of expressing your thoughts. This is one of my favorite Sahir songs too. It is quintessential Sahir, the impassioned and bitter lover who cannot attain his beloved, dangerously evoking forbidden desires.

On the heels of that bitter-casual refrain of turning back the clock, "Chalo ek baar phirse ajnabi ban jayen hum dono", come these wonderful lines:

Na main tumse koi ummeed rakhoon dilnavaazi ki
Na tum meri taraf dekho galat andaaz nazaron se
Na mere dil ki dhadkan ladkhadaaye meri baaton mein
Na zaahir ho tumhaari kashm-kash ka raaz nazaron se
Chalo ek baar phir se..


In the very act of upholding social sanctions, (Na main, Na tum, Na mere, Na zaahir) he is elaborating upon these desires...

And in the last stanza where he is trying to come to terms with these desires...the tumultuous emotions of the lovers in the first stanza have evolved to images of "rog" and "bojh." in the face of social sanctions. The lover poet gives a "khoobsoorat mod" to these raw emotions in the form of his beautiful poetry. What a song, Sahir at his most personal, still exercising control over his world through the power of his poetry.

Taarruf rog ho jaaye to usko bhoolnaa behtar
Taalluk bojh ban jaaye to usko todnaa achchha
Voh afsaana jise anjaam tak laana na ho mumkin
Use ek khoobsoorat mod dekar chhodna achchha
Chalo ek baar phir se..

Posted by: simplefable Aug 17 2009, 12:30 PM

Madhavi...awesome. that is one of the finest expressions i have ever read. You do have the wonderful gift of expression. bow.gif
To think that i have written every word of the verse and tried to link up after deciphering from dictionary... laugh.gif Right now, feel like turning the clock all the way back to my childhood. smile1.gif
I think in every conscientious romantic, there always remains a split personality....sacrifice and selfish..acceptance and denial...Endless derivations of the puzzling soul.

Posted by: bawlachintu Aug 17 2009, 01:46 PM

QUOTE(mmuk2004 @ Aug 17 2009, 01:56 AM) *

BC,

I am not very sure about whether I understand you here. If you mean "yun" not "kyun" both are used in the song, not just "yun."

I was trying to look up the meaning of "yachak" it means "healer", "shaman" "local medicine man" etc. (as far as I could make out). If sawaali also means yachak in Hindi then I would think the Urdu word is more appropriate here.

You are absolutely right. Probably Asha's pronunciation creates confusion.
She uttered "yun" clearly while chewed up the other word. biggrin.gif

Regarding meaning of yachak , not sure about the appropriateness of
urdu word though.

A synonym of "yachak" is "bhikhari" . Yachak is a wide term, rather more
graceful.

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 17 2009, 09:01 PM

QUOTE(bawlachintu @ Aug 17 2009, 03:16 AM) *



Regarding meaning of yachak , not sure about the appropriateness of
urdu word though.

A synonym of "yachak" is "bhikhari" . Yachak is a wide term, rather more
graceful.



Ah! I get you. Yes, I can understand how yachak can mean both wandering sadhu and bhikhari (not really beggar).

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 18 2009, 04:02 AM

BC,

I thought I just saw your thoughtful analysis on the song. Please do not delete it. I wanted to translate it once I get the time, if you don't mind.

Posted by: madsur Aug 18 2009, 04:41 AM

Dear Madhavi,

A little bit of personal reminiscence that can be considered an intrusion into this territory.

Sometime in Sept 2008, I was wanting the video of the famous Sahir song that SF is referring to, I googled for Sahir Ludhianvi and this thread showed in the listing somewhere in the third or fourth page. I had come across HF in many listings, but never paid serious attention.

When I read the first few pages of the thread, I was enthralled & fascinated.
That I got the video in Youtube, is a different matter.

But it was this thread & Parag's Geetaji's thread that compelled me to join the forum, a few days later.

In fact, I am not very comfortable at reading from a computer screen. I got the entire thing printed, some 170 pages odd, and used to read it regularly at bedtime, fascinated by the scholarly analysis. I still have those printed pages.

Of late, I had not seen much activity in this thread.

I am very happy that you have resumed writing on this thread.

In my view, 'Chalo ek baar..' is one of the finest lyrics written in HFM & equally well picturized. I can never get tired watching that video. It is a classic piece of romantic irony, to coin a phrase.

With best wishes for continuing a great thread.
Suresh

Posted by: simplefable Aug 18 2009, 07:33 AM

Suresh...it is nice to read your comments. Glad that you found this forum and chose to join.. smile1.gif
Actually i had internet at home from 2000..and always used to google for old songs, but some how, HF never turned up on my list. Or i might be totally unaware of what a forum might be..that was the level of my ignorance.
Then, one day i was searching for a rare Rafi song..and i ended up here. the attachment was taken off by that time, as the mandatory thirty days was over..So i requested, and pronto the song was mailed to me. smile.gif
Now, when i look back, i have started to notice how much am attached to this forum...
I enjoy sharing my views and talking about these fantastic melodies more than just listening to them and locking them up in my collection..what is happiness which cant be shared ?

Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 18 2009, 10:19 AM

QUOTE(madsur @ Aug 17 2009, 06:11 PM) *

Dear Madhavi,

A little bit of personal reminiscence that can be considered an intrusion into this territory.

Sometime in Sept 2008, I was wanting the video of the famous Sahir song that SF is referring to, I googled for Sahir Ludhianvi and this thread showed in the listing somewhere in the third or fourth page. I had come across HF in many listings, but never paid serious attention.

When I read the first few pages of the thread, I was enthralled & fascinated.
That I got the video in Youtube, is a different matter.

But it was this thread & Parag's Geetaji's thread that compelled me to join the forum, a few days later.

In fact, I am not very comfortable at reading from a computer screen. I got the entire thing printed, some 170 pages odd, and used to read it regularly at bedtime, fascinated by the scholarly analysis. I still have those printed pages.

Of late, I had not seen much activity in this thread.

I am very happy that you have resumed writing on this thread.

In my view, 'Chalo ek baar..' is one of the finest lyrics written in HFM & equally well picturized. I can never get tired watching that video. It is a classic piece of romantic irony, to coin a phrase.

With best wishes for continuing a great thread.
Suresh


Suresh,

Thank you for your generous praise. It feels very good when I get this kind of feedback from someone who appreciates Sahir's poetry. Appreciation of songs and poems is also very personal, these responses layer the "meanings" of poems in complex and fulfilling ways, they are never, ever intrusive.

"Classic piece of romantic irony" : that is exactly it...very aptly put! Sahir is much more in control in this song than he is in his other songs. the bitterness and passion are tightly reined, not allowed to spill over into despair and self-destruction.


Posted by: mmuk2004 Aug 18 2009, 10:21 AM

QUOTE(simplefable @ Aug 17 2009, 09:03 PM) *

Suresh...it is nice to read your comments. Glad that you found this forum and chose to join.. smile1.gif
Actually i had internet at home from 2000..and always used to google for old songs, but some how, HF never turned up on my list. Or i might be totally unaware of what a forum might be..that was the level of my ignorance.
Then, one day i was searching for a rare Rafi song..and i ended up here. the attachment was taken off by that time, as the mandatory thirty days was over..So i requested, and pronto the song was mailed to me. smile.gif
Now, when i look back, i have started to notice how much am attached to this forum...
I enjoy sharing my views and talking about these fantastic melodies more than just listening to them and locking them up in my collection..what is happiness which cant be shared ?



SF,

I too came here looking for a song and got a lot more in exchange smile1.gif It does have a family feel to it... jhagdas included biggrin.gif

Posted by: mmuk2004 May 18 2010, 11:41 AM

Joru Ka Bhai (1955) : MD: Jaidev


Lata version:
Surmai raat hai,
Sitaren hain aaj dono jahan hamare hain
Subah ka intezaar kaun kare(2)

Phir ye rut ye sama mile na mile(2)
Arzoo ka chaman khile na khine
Waqt ka aitbaar kaun kare...
Subah ka intezaar kaun kare...

Le bhi lo humko apni baahon mein(2)
Rooh bechain hai nigaahon mein
Hai...iltejaah baar baar kaun kare...
Subah ka intezaar kaun kare...(2)


Talat version:

Surmai raat dhalti jaati hai
Rooh gham se pighalti jaati hai
Teri zulphon se pyar kaun kare...
Ab tera intezaar kaun kare...

Tumko apna bana ke dekh liya(2),
Ek baar aazma ke dekh liya
Baar baar aitbaar kaun kare
Ab tera intezaar kaun kare

Aye dil-e-zaar sogawaar(?) na ho
Unki chahat mein bekaraar na ho
Hai badnaseebon se pyar kaun kare
Badnaseebon se pyar kaun kare
Ab tera intezaar...



I am back to harping about how film lyrics were a very restrictive medium to serious poets and how Sahir worked them to his advantage. Romance is not the baton that progressive poets waved, it was "inquilaab," social justice and the rejection of romance that were liberating themes for them, and yet, Sahir seems to be pulled by the lure of romance that is so much a part of his personality, experience and his output. There are many fiery and searingly thoughtful examples of his social activism in his film lyrics. Yet it is, I feel, the inevitable and ubiquitious romantic situations of hindi films that provided him the unique opportunity to shape the lyrics to reflect and record the changes in his attitudes and experiment with technique as the years passed.


Take for example, the two versions of the "Intezaar" song in Joru Ka Bhai. Here he is dealing with two of the most typical situations in romantic songs... the romantic setting (stars etc. etc.) and the desire of the lovers to be together and emotionally fraught moment when the lover who has been rejected in love, expresses his disillusionment with his lover.

Sahir takes the opportunity to let the woman articulate desire. Her expression is not coy, she is the impatient lover... she does not want to wait for the morning, she is eager to embrace all they have at this moment, she wants to seize it, she expresses her desire, "waqt ka aitbaar kaun kare..." she does not trust time. She is bold, she asks her lover to take her in his arms. The purity and the sweetness of Lata's voice contrasts wonderfully with the passion of the lines... for all her "missishness" and her "bhai sahabs" and "jis" there is something about the incredible purity of her pronunciations and the instinctively perfect pauses that becomes almost sensuous in her songs. "Haye..." she sighs "iltejaah baar baar kaun kare..."

Sahir subtlely changes the mood in the Talat version. The "surmayee raat" that had immediacy and that hint of tactile eroticism in the Lata version has become "surmayi raat dhalti jaati hai...;" it is now the darkness of the cheated lover's world. It is associated not with the "bechain rooh" of the woman but the "rooh" of the lover that is laden with "gham." In fact Sahir takes key words in the songs and changes them slightly to create a teasingly similar and yet ironic contrast.

Teri zulphon se pyar kaun kare...
Ab tera intezaar kaun kare...

He rejects the woman's tresses...(almost seems to be rejecting a particular tradition in poetry), and he is not willing to wait for her... "Subah ka intezaar kaun kare" has become "Ab tera intezaar kaun kare..." The woman's daring impatience has become, in the male version, a dismissal of the woman.

The man's rejection of the woman is more self-possessed than is typical of Sahir's rejected lover's persona. He has tried her loyalty...baar baar aitbaar kaun kare... He almost seems to be moving on... He tries to calm his wounded heart...and the "hayee" that the woman has expresses so coyly... pleading with him not to make her beg... has become the "hayee..." of the lover who rejects her again... "badnaseebon se pyar kaun kare." The lover here seems much more resilient..

Reminds me of the Talat/Asha versions in Sone ki Chidiya in which the situation seems reversed with the woman who is abandoned where he has changed key words to change the mood of the entire song. In both movies the same words are used to articulate very different moods... it seems a deliberate and innovative use of what I can only call "ironic similarites" instead of ironic contrast. However in Sone Ki Chidiya, the mood is much more somber whereas in Joru Ka Bhai, there is so much deliberate word play that the male version almost seems to mock the female version.

Posted by: bawlachintu Aug 2 2010, 09:41 PM

QUOTE(madsur @ Aug 17 2009, 06:11 PM) *


In my view, 'Chalo ek baar..' is one of the finest lyrics written in HFM & equally well picturized. I can never get tired watching that video. It is a classic piece of romantic irony, to coin a phrase.

With best wishes for continuing a great thread.
Suresh

Part of the referred nazm is available in Sahir's voice here :

http://audiopoetry.wordpress.com/category/poet/sahir-ludhianvi/


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