Hi,
Could anyone point out some oustanding differences in between these languages ? (doesnt inlcude writing the languages)
Akhtar:
You've raised a very interesting point. I'm quoting an extract from the Preface to the 1992 edition of "URDU FOR PLEASURE - LUGHAT" by the late Sultan Nathani:
(QUOTE) Prior to Independence, the maximum number of journals and newspapers published in India were in the Urdu language. In the last 46 years Urdu has suffered a set-back due to continuous misgiving that Urdu is the language of Muslims. Urdu does not belong to any region or to any religion. It got developed by the natives speaking Brij Bhasha coming continuously in contact with Moghul army camps during their rule. The word 'Urdu' means 'Army camp'. This contact and communication between the natives of Northern India and Moghul soldiers developed into the Urdu language. It is not developed by any Pundits or Molvis. It is the people's language born in Delhi and purely an Indian language. No less a person than India's renowned journalist Khushwant Singh has said that Urdu is 'Kohinoor' among Indian languages. Today, it is the soul of the Indian film industry and the basic language for ghazals, film lyrics and stage performances.
The main hurdle with Urdu is that it is written in the Persian script. Today, the Persian script is definintely a foreign script for Indians and a divisive element in the way of national integration. During the 15th century, Persian was the script of Moghul Royalty.
There is no difference between Urdu and Hindi as they are gramatically similar. As a matter of fact, Muslims must demand that Urdu be taught in Hindi script in their own interest and also in national interest. Well-known poet Josh Malihabadi had personally expressed his opinion to me that in India, Urdu must adopt Hindi script in the interest of Urdu language and in national interest. Also, well-known poet Firaq Gorakhpuri and film-script writer Masoom Rahi Raza have publicly advocated that Urdu must be written in Hindi script in India. Hindi script would be the unification of two languages and spoken Urdu will remain pure and chaste as it is spoken now. The unification would require a minor change of adding 'Z' in the Hindi alphabet. (UNQUOTE)
Many thanks for that interesting insight.
Many of my good freinds speak, what they call 'Hindi', to me, and I find it to be a carbon copy of urdu.
A similar doubt had occured to me while in school and I had asked my Hindi
teacher about it. He said that both these languages had evolved from a
language called Dakkani ( a spoken language on the Deccan plateau ).
The Moghul scholars gave this language the Persian script, while some
others gave it the Devanagri script ( i.e. the script used for Sanskrit ).
As the script changed the basic language diverged towards Persian
and Sanskrit forming Urdu and Hindi respectively.
There is little difference between the two languages but this difference is evident
when the pure versions of the languages are compared. What is generally spoken
however is a mix of both languages known as Hindustani.
I know urdu is written from the right hindi is written from the left
Sorry, i disagree! "Pure" Urdu is completely different then "Pure" hindi! In Urdu lang., there are tons of persian/arabic terms vs Hindi with Sanskrit. We (general public) speak a blend of hindi/urdu + regional slangs! Just read any urdu poetry and compare it with hindi poetry - they r totally different! Its not just in the written format!
as far as I know urdu became a "muslim language" beacuse it was the first Indian language the Koran was translated to, even though it had existed for ages. Urdu was at the startingpiont only a written language and not spoken, until the "muslimasation" of the language, and it approached languages as persian, arabic etc.
But is was also a official written language in india in the last period of english rule.
regarding spoken language, as earlier said, pure hindi and todays pure urdu are quite different languages.
But since both languages were used in the areas around Delhi, they borrowed words from each other so one easier could understand eachother.
the devanagri (hindi) alphabet does not have the sounds f, z and q.
they have later been made by addig dots beneath the most similar sounding characters. this implies that ALL hindi words that has the sounds of f, z and q are borrowed words.when one speaks hindi today, app. 30% of the words are borrowed.
Indias previous PM Vajpaye spoke quite pure hindi, which made (my guess) more then 70% of the public not understand what he said!
the hindi most peolple talk today is a mix of the languages hindi, urdu, punjabi, gujrati, marthi (and many other Indian languages) and english, and is also called hindustani instead of hindi, which I regard as a more correct name of the language...
so next time you try to speak in hindi try to change the "borrowed" words and you will probably be standing there with a bilingualk dictionary and looking for words.
hope this clearified some questions
Its sad that languages are associated with religions.
Lanuage is a tool for communication.
I remember as a graduate student in the US, some of my classmates from outside South Asia were quite intrigued by the languages spoken by students from India and Pakistan.
To such people, the (North) Indian woud say his native langiage was Hindi, the Pakistani woud say Urdu. Yet we woud talk fluently with each other, much to the amazement of the other nationalities.
One of them was even more surprised that I would speak with my Indian friends (from Chennai) in English but with the Pakistani in the same language (Hindi/Urdu)!
I also observed at that time that Hindi and Urdu are probably the only pair of languages in the world which sound almost identical yet are written completely differently - usually it's the other way around, same script but different sounds and vocabs.
Cheers.
50Some1
Yeah u r rite. Urdu was accepted as the major official Language in India, when British came
To India they realised how urdu was spreading, so they chose it as official Language. Urdu is
Known to be very Artistic Language, but it's not very independent like other Langs. It
used the words of Parsian, Arabic and also the words/Grammer of Hindi. That's why Hindi and
Urdu match eachother. Urdu was started developing during the times of Moghal(Babar - Akbar)
Mainly in South India .... So Urdu is the Language of India and not any other Country but Indian
Islamic Culture(mainly) is the 1 who was there behind its creation .....
Nature-ji,
Your post sets off a query. Maybe Sajjad-bhai, Imran-bhai and others could clarify.
I remember watching the news telecast on Pakistan TV (for the few months it was allowed to be aired in Bombay) a few years back and was quite surprised at the language that was being spoken. Even Gen Musharraf's TV addesses that are sometimes aired on foreign channels (when they dont superimpose their translated versions on the audio) is soo different from the 'normal' Urdu which I thought I understood from my knowledge of Hindi. Are these the pure forms of Urdu or are they different dialects / versions of Urdu spoken in Pakistan ?
Its such a pleasure when listening to Dilip Kumar (Yusufsaab) and Naushad-sahab speak. Its a challenge to decipher the many words that they so effortlessly use in their regular conversation. Similarly, its a pleasure to listen to AB Vajpayee speak Hindi -- its so pure and unadulterated that most of the times I'm ashamed to say that I know Hindi !!
There was one more query I had which I had posted elsewhere (probably at an inappropriate forum):
I imagine the written alphabets of Hindi and Urdu are also different from each other:--- Hindi goes like A, Aa, I, Ii, O, Oo, etc.... Does Urdu also follow the same trend ? Or is it more english / greek-like say alpha, beta, gamma, etc .... the latter statement obviously being incorrect as I suppose Urdu would follow the Persian / Arabic system of alphabets. Maybe someone who knows both written Hindi and written Urdu could clarify ?
Vivek
I am a BENGLA speaking person but i have very high regards for URDU.URDU is all about TEHZEEB and KHULUS.I have few acquintances who speak purest form of URDU,i just keep on listening them as if MEETHI are coming out of their mouth.
Yup i dun mind if URDU is taught with DEVANAGARI script.I am a very poor URDU reader,everytime i have to spell the words i read. .
My neighbours are non-muslims but i was surprised to see that their signatures are in URDU.I was intrigued and asked them about it,the old man said he knows only urdu because in those days it was the 2nd language after english in schools.
I am very disappointed with the congress goverment ,they opened many URDU schools in DELHI only upto primary level for vote bank.
The kids have no future after completing primary level.They struggle in ENGLISH medium or in HINDI medium schools.
Yes URDU is not a language of any region or religion.Its a language of manners.
Visuja Ji , Thanks for the message .. lots of History and other things r there to know about ...
Did I say Alphabets r same ? I am sorry, that may be wrong( In general).
I also said It follows the Hindi Grammer and about the
Alphabets they may be different, but as far as words concern. There r so many words that came
From Hindi and Persian itself. At those times, Urdu was developed by many Literati and I just
Found from different websites that they started choosing the same words in some cases and
Modifying it from Persian and Hindi. As we know, Language is not a set of words that formed it ..
Day by Day new thinking minds r coming and new words r coming ... in that way Urdu got the 2days
Shape like other Languages. We can see many words r same in Hindi and Urdu and the way we
Speak Urdu is almost same as we speak Hindi and that's why I said "It uses the same Grammer as
Hindi" ... Not my personal view, but what I got from my different conversations I am just putting it
Here, ofcourse if somebody knows well then we all would like to know more and appropriate History.
In India, Punjab is the first state where Urdu was chosen as "Official language" by the British ...
Those times, Pakistan was in India so Urdu was able to spread so quickly mainly because of its
Artistic nature and in the beginning it started to spread among the Islamic Culture ...
Regarding the Point "How Urdu is spoken in Pakistan is a way different from some other places" ..
That's happening with every Language ... Ask Humble_Rafi Ji , he is Bengali but How Calcutta
People speak is different from the ways it is spoken in other states even it is different from North
Bengal ( Siliguri side, or other rural area ) ... in most of the languages I think the way of speaking
Vary from place to place may not be much but at least a bit ..
-------------
Please poure some Idea, if u know .. I know the Topic is learning "Urdu" but I am talking about its
History .... Is that bad ???
any language that cannot upgrade itself with time it will be a dead language.
just think abt SANSKRIT(technically its the best phonetic language)
and PALI language too.
we need to find alternative ways to save URDU from its extinction like its written form in hindi.
as I dont live in Bharat I dont know, but in Delhi it is written in urdu on many busses. is this only for the older generations who didn't learn devanagri, or are there people today who only learns urdu?
Thank u Bibhas Ji and Visuja Ji for writing such a nice Letter. The Obervations u made
felt so good to know. Thank u Bibhas Ji for telling the Urdu "Alphabets" .. as u said
It is closed to Persian .. can u show us some Persian Alphabets .. and also which letters
In Urdu resemble the letters in Hindi or English .. would like to know more ... and eager to
Learn Urdu too .. don't know whether it will be possible here or not .. Bye
Waiting for a reply ...
URDU IS BASICALLY VERY SIMILAR TO ARABIC IN SCRIPTURE.
URDU AND HINDI BOLNAY MAIN KAAFI SIMILAR HAIN PER LIKHNAY MAIN BUHAT DIFFERENT.
THE URDU WHICH IS SPOKEN IN PAKISTAN IS NOT MIXED UP WITH OTHER LANGUAGES
EXCEPT ENGLISH.BUT IN INDIA HINDI IS MIXED UP WITH MANY LANGUAGES AS INDIA IS A
HIGHLY POPULATED COUNTRY IT HAS MANY LANGUAGES.
BUT IN PAKISTAN YOU WILL FIND THAT IN MOST OF THE PROVICES URDU IS SPOKEN.
IN PUNJAB PEOPLE SPOKE URDU AND PUNJABI.
IN NWFP AND BALOCHISTAN MOST OF PEOPLE SPOKE PASHTO.AND
IN SINDH PEOPLE SPOKE SINDHI BUT MOST OF THEM ARE URDU SPEAKING.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)