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Aliens

, Are we alone in this Universe?

 
> Aliens, Are we alone in this Universe?
vivekpm
post Jul 19 2005, 11:58 PM
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Aliens!!! This is the topic which intrigues me everytime I ponder upon it...

I used to run SETI sometime back hoping that I would some day help in making contacts with extra-terrestial creatures smile1.gif.

Would like to invite talks on this topic. One thing that I have always wondered is why have most, if not all, research on aliens concentrated in finding possible places in universe which can support life, that is, which has water in some form, sustainable temperatures etc...? Is it not possible that the definition of life can be different for aliens? I mean they may not require water at all. They may sustain only at 1000+ temperatures or at sub-zero temperatures. Why is this not possible? After all, the notion that to sustain life we need favourable conditions like presence of water etc., is concieved by us. For aliens, "favourable conditions" may be different.

Would request anyone who has done some reading on this to please throw more lights and possibly supply pointers to good research material...

Cheers,
Vivek...

PS: Thanks NimmiJi for this new forum...
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vivekpm
post Aug 31 2005, 02:36 PM
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One more prospect for life outside our planet?!!

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4197686.stm

QUOTE
Space scientists say their discoveries about Saturn's moon Enceladus are stunning, if just a little baffling.

Using the instrument-packed Cassini probe, they have confirmed that the 500km-wide world has an atmosphere.

They have also seen a "hotspot" at the icy moon's south pole, which is riven with cracks dubbed "tiger stripes".

But the US and European scientists told a London meeting they could not yet explain fully the energetic processes driving all the activity on Enceladus.

"There were signs from a long time ago that Enceladus was a strange moon," said Dr Carolyn Porco, leader of Cassini's imaging team, "but it is just so gratifying and fabulous to see all the results come together and clearly point to a specific region on the surface which seems to be the origin of a lot of that peculiarity."

'Strange' world

The moon has become a major target of interest since the Cassini mission to the Saturn system arrived just over a year ago.

Enceladus orbits the ringed planet at a distance of approximately 237,400km and is described as the most reflective object in the Solar System; its icy surface throws back about 90% of the sunlight that hits it.


It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange
Dr John Spencer, Southwest Research Institute
The spacecraft made a special low pass of the moon on 14 July, crossing a mere 173km above the surface at its closest approach.

This allowed Cassini to make observations of unprecedented detail; and they backed up data obtained by the probe's magnetometer instrument on previous flybys that hinted at the presence of a water vapour atmosphere.

But that was just the start of what is now proving to be a fascinating and evolving story.

"We confirmed the signature that there was an atmosphere but it is strange atmosphere," Professor Michele Dougherty, from the UK's Imperial College and the lead scientist for the magnetometer instrument, told BBC News.

"It seems to be concentrated at the south pole and the best way to match our observations is that you have almost a cometary jet coming off the south pole."

'Hard to understand'

High-resolution imagery shows the southern polar region to be relatively smooth - usually a good indicator of recent activity - but cut by a number of long, dominant cracks. These are the so-called tiger stripes.

They are about 130km long and roughly parallel to one another, spaced about 40km apart.

Cassini's composite infrared spectrometer shows the region to be much warmer than expected.

Temperature data from Cassini (Nasa)
Heat is concentrated at the south pole
Whereas temperatures near the equator are a frigid 80 Kelvin (minus 193C), the south polar average reaches 85K (minus 188C). Small areas of the pole, concentrated near the tiger stripe fractures, are even warmer: well over 110K (minus 163C) in some places.

"The amount of heat there is really hard to understand as being due to just sunlight warming the surface," said Dr John Spencer, from the Southwest Research Institute in Colorado, US.

"It shouldn't be that warm at the pole. It would be like flying past the Earth and finding that Antarctica was warmer than equatorial regions - that strange.

"This is only the second place in the Solar System beyond Earth that we've seen signs of heat coming out of the interior - the other being Jupiter's moon Io."

The scientists think the cracks may act like vents, spewing out water vapour and very fine water-ice particles. Some have suggested there could be ice geysers and even ice volcanoes at the stripe locations - but these have not been imaged directly.

Interest index

The puzzle for researchers is how to explain such an energetic system on Enceladus.

As the moon moves around an eccentric orbit of Saturn, gravitational forces should subject the tiny world to some tidal heating. Radioactive isotopes in its rocky core may also be a source of some warming.

But scientists are struggling to make the numbers add up and are frankly baffled as to why the activity they see should be so concentrated in just the one region.

Presence of organics at tiger stripes (Nasa)
Cassini could detect very simple organics at the tiger stripes
"One of the most fascinating aspects of Enceladus is that it's so very small as icy moons go, but so very geophysically active," said Dr Bob Brown, from the University of Arizona, US, and team leader for Cassini's visual and infrared mapping spectrometer.

"It's hard for a body as small as Enceladus to hold onto the heat necessary to drive such large-scale geophysical phenomena, but it had done just that.

"Enceladus and its incredible geology is a marvellous puzzle for us to figure out."

Certainly, what the Cassini data has done is thrust Enceladus up the interest index of objects in the Solar System that demand further investigation.

Scientists may not be able to explain the "boiler" at the south pole but they are already talking up the possibility that conditions there could allow for liquid water below the surface - with all the implications that might have.

"It's quite likely that this moon will now join the ranks of Mars and Jupiter's moon Europa where you might have liquid water - and the biologists could start getting interested in this being a place were life might possibly arise," enthused Dr Torrence Johnson, a Cassini scientist from Nasa's Jet Propulsion Laboratory in California.

"It moves Enceladus from being a small denizen of the outer Solar System - a frozen iceberg - to something that's more of an active type world that we're interested in exploring."

Cassini discoveries at Enceladus include:

    * presence of a strange atmosphere concentrated at the south pole
    * atmosphere mostly (91%) water vapour, but with some nitrogen, carbon dioxide and other simple carbon-based molecules (organics)
    * large crevasse features at south pole dubbed tiger stripes
    * intriguing hotspot at south pole - anomalous warmth in the area of the tiger stripes
    * presence of "orderly" water-ice at south pole, especially within tiger stripe features, indicates region must have been very hot, be very young, or both
    * presence of simple organics along the fractures
    * indication that water vapour and fine material are being ejected from tiger stripes
    * fine ice material is probably the significant and sustaining source of ice particles that make up Saturn's outermost ring - its E ring

Cassini scientists are meeting in London this week ahead of a major conference of the American Astronomy Society in Cambridge next week.

The $3.2bn Cassini-Huygens mission is a joint venture between the US space agency (Nasa), the European Space Agency (Esa) and the Italian Space Agency (Asi).


Cheers,

V i V e K ...

--------------------------------------------



Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance.
-- Will Durant

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Posts in this topic
vivekpm   Aliens   Jul 19 2005, 11:58 PM
Mandrake   Vivek, good point. However, when earth-scientists...   Jul 20 2005, 08:50 AM
vivekpm   Good explaination Mandrake... One more point th...   Jul 20 2005, 03:00 PM
vivekpm   Vivek, good point. However, when earth-scientist...   Oct 18 2005, 09:55 PM
Nimii   Instead of finding a place to live with the curren...   Jul 20 2005, 08:56 AM
Chitralekha   The biggest proof that there is intelligent life l...   Jul 20 2005, 08:57 AM
Mandrake   If they are extinct, tough luck. But if they are ...   Jul 20 2005, 03:47 PM
vivekpm   Mandrake, you have brought to light one more int...   Jul 20 2005, 06:41 PM
YaarMere   Wot abt Area51 n Roswell, is there any truth to th...   Jul 20 2005, 06:21 PM
tusharhaldanker82   Our universe is so large that this discussion can ...   Jul 22 2005, 02:19 AM
vivekpm   True Tushar that universe is infinite. But the q...   Jul 22 2005, 09:49 AM
Mandrake   Vivek, it is an educated guess that if they find u...   Jul 22 2005, 12:16 PM
vivekpm   Yes Mandrake. Long way to go before we meet some...   Jul 22 2005, 01:42 PM
suhana_safar   As a child I used to think we are alone but now I ...   Jul 22 2005, 12:48 PM
Nimii   But then SS u never know.. they may be juz functio...   Jul 22 2005, 12:50 PM
suhana_safar   Nimmi I know what you are trying to say. But wh...   Jul 22 2005, 01:04 PM
Nimii   I wish o wish I would meet an alien (definitely wo...   Jul 22 2005, 01:55 PM
Nimii   SS .. sowwy I didnt see ur post. Well why is it ...   Jul 22 2005, 02:00 PM
vivekpm   Very true. It is in our nature to look at the ne...   Jul 22 2005, 02:14 PM
suhana_safar   Very true. It is in our nature to look at the ne...   Jul 22 2005, 03:04 PM
Nimii   No doubt at all... but all these negative things a...   Jul 22 2005, 03:13 PM
suhana_safar   Yes Nimii you are right, I could also mention pl...   Jul 22 2005, 04:11 PM
vivekpm   Yes Nimii you are right, I could also mention pl...   Jul 22 2005, 04:25 PM
shivani   : ) Kind of late to revive this topic I guess.. b...   Aug 2 2005, 12:50 PM
Mandrake   Shivani, I need to welcome you once again (prov...   Aug 2 2005, 01:29 PM
Poppy   I really missed this section of HF After GURU...   Aug 11 2005, 12:30 PM
vivekpm   Good pointer Sachin. While reading on Drake equa...   Aug 11 2005, 04:03 PM
qhabibi   I Want To Meet President Of United States Of Ameri...   Aug 11 2005, 01:05 PM
Poppy   Yes you are right vivek another interesting part ...   Aug 11 2005, 05:54 PM
vivekpm   This is exactly what I had pointed in one of my ...   Aug 11 2005, 06:05 PM
vivekpm   One more prospect for life outside our planet?...   Aug 31 2005, 02:36 PM
Mandrake   Just for an update, Cassini recorded yesterday gia...   Aug 31 2005, 03:19 PM
zashakeel   Just for an update, Cassini recorded yesterday gi...   Oct 8 2005, 03:32 PM
vivekpm   Just for an update, Cassini recorded yesterday gi...   Mar 19 2006, 02:00 AM
Mandrake   Vivek, main is khel ka purana khiladi hoon ;) Par...   Oct 19 2005, 08:52 AM
vivekpm   Source Cheers,   Jan 7 2006, 03:23 PM
vivekpm   Source Any comments specifically on the underli...   Mar 19 2006, 12:49 AM
shivani   This is a theroy much talked about... but there ...   Mar 19 2006, 12:54 AM
vivekpm   This is a theroy much talked about... but there...   Mar 19 2006, 01:06 AM
shivani   Ah! There was a show they did on Titan, and h...   Mar 19 2006, 01:17 AM
vivekpm   Yeah, Cassini it was (the satellite sent to study ...   Mar 19 2006, 01:36 AM
shivani   oh no.. it is not water.. it is nitrogen Oxide : )...   Mar 19 2006, 01:41 AM
vivekpm   Ohk... I must have mixed up then. Remember vaguely...   Mar 19 2006, 01:57 AM
Mandrake   Nice going fellas. Keep it up :thumbs-up: Btw, Ca...   Mar 19 2006, 07:26 AM
vivekpm   Also, just a humble thought for logical people l...   Mar 20 2006, 12:18 AM
shivani   .. so am judge dread!!! I really real...   Mar 19 2006, 10:40 AM
catch22   Does all this say something?   Mar 19 2006, 02:45 PM
Mandrake   lol, Catch, you seem to be putting me in a spot :)...   Mar 19 2006, 03:22 PM
catch22   We would only want to believe what we want to.   Mar 19 2006, 03:27 PM
priya   I came here looking for little green men. :( When...   Mar 19 2006, 09:57 PM
Nimii   Priyz it happens.. good channels always get snippe...   Mar 19 2006, 09:59 PM
shivani   Priya You mean to say.. you actually use that rem...   Mar 19 2006, 10:04 PM
priya   Priya You mean to say.. you actually use that re...   Mar 19 2006, 11:26 PM
Mandrake   Priya, are you looking for what clicks or stinks f...   Mar 19 2006, 10:18 PM
priya   Priya, are you looking for what clicks or stinks ...   Mar 19 2006, 11:27 PM
Mandrake   Priya, are you looking for what clicks or stinks...   Mar 20 2006, 08:28 AM
vivekpm   What makes you think martians are more intellige...   Mar 20 2006, 10:43 AM
shivani   Sigh! Quite possible! and Vivek.. why do ...   Mar 20 2006, 10:47 AM
vivekpm   Sigh! Quite possible! and Vivek.. why do...   Mar 20 2006, 10:58 AM
Nimii   Sigh! (PS : My last spam here.. lest the grea...   Mar 20 2006, 01:01 PM
Mandrake   Vivek, computer jaise khilone toh sirf HF pe posti...   Mar 20 2006, 10:48 AM
vivekpm   Vivek, computer jaise khilone toh sirf HF pe post...   Mar 20 2006, 11:02 AM
Mandrake   Shivani, who dares throw you out? The Great Master...   Mar 20 2006, 10:50 AM
Mandrake   So who said that living cannot be earned out of to...   Mar 20 2006, 11:07 AM
vivekpm   So who said that living cannot be earned out of t...   Mar 20 2006, 11:45 AM
Nimii   An interesting read on this site.. Ppl who havent ...   Mar 20 2006, 01:03 PM
vivekpm   Source Cheers,   Oct 28 2006, 02:22 PM
Reeth   Mandrake, you have brought to light one more in...   Oct 30 2006, 12:00 AM
Mandrake   So what's stopping us? Have a go, Reeth :)   Nov 8 2006, 04:51 PM
Nimii   Well Mandrake everyone has "alienated" t...   Nov 10 2006, 12:09 PM
Mandrake   It depends on one's outlook ;) One can make a ...   Nov 10 2006, 12:30 PM
Nimii   May be they can send me! I have already recei...   Nov 10 2006, 12:52 PM
Mandrake   For 20 million Ewe-ace dhaalers you can take a tri...   Nov 10 2006, 12:59 PM
Nimii   Ok :lol: back to some serious stuff. Where did u r...   Nov 10 2006, 01:14 PM
Mandrake   New? This one is as old as the hills...so to say ;...   Nov 10 2006, 01:54 PM
Reeth   slight deviation from the above discussion..... S...   Nov 10 2006, 05:37 PM
Mandrake   Reeth, which year are these events from? Not this ...   Nov 10 2006, 06:41 PM
Nimii   I remember watching a tv serial on Star Plus some ...   Nov 10 2006, 06:54 PM
Mandrake   Told you why, na? :angry2: When the public outcry ...   Nov 10 2006, 07:06 PM
Nimii   Ailaaaaaaaa aisa kya :wacko: Sigh why do I never s...   Nov 10 2006, 07:10 PM
Reeth   Reeth, which year are these events from? Not this...   Nov 10 2006, 07:21 PM
Nimii   Or mebbe we see it as some kind of charisma in th...   Nov 10 2006, 07:25 PM
Mandrake   Are we really? Do you think americans are more a...   Nov 10 2006, 08:28 PM
vivekpm   Source Cheers,   Jan 9 2007, 11:49 AM


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